Cork Southern Distributor Road [route selection]

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Up to a point yet, but a better way of thinking about it is like the current Dublin Outer Ring. DC in each direction with lights and the odd roundabout with a bus lane too.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

My worry is that a road of that style will only get roundabouts or traffic lights, which means people will still use the N40.

marno21 wrote: »

Well in fairness the North Ring Road (the one there now) is a lesser standard than this and has a GSJ at the N8 junction at Tivoli

There will definitely be a junction with the N27. I can't understand why in Ireland there is no appetite whatsoever for compact flyover/flyunder junctions with a link road between the two roads. Not full grade seperation but no conflicts for through traffic on both mainlines.

cantalach wrote: »

I reckon the all-new 190m section cutting through the Mangala Wood to join Grange Road (R851) to the old Carrigaline Road (R609) will be fought tooth and nail locally. Local teens will be badly affected as the wood is a favourite spot for a sess’...

marno21 wrote: »

I think the proposal to widen the Rochestown Road for bus and cycle lanes will be even more entertaining when it’s published

This is nearly two years ago now! Does anyone know if anything progressed?

They've already scrapped the Mangala wood bridge, which was probably the single most important part of this entire project. So I doubt anything actually useful will see the light of day here.

I understand your logic here, but I don't know if a distributor outside a bypass can work.

I'd love to underground the N40 like the Maastricht A2. The problem is that we already have flyovers at Douglas, KRR, and BRR so the cost of it would be astronomical. Right now I don't see a better solution than R610 and R851 unfortunately. It's why alternative transport modes are kinda urgent now. Probably need to toll the N40 then, and obviously badly need the Northern Bypass too.

I don't know what "primarily/exclusively for local traffic" means and how you would determine which N40 exits (and presumably entrances) meet this criterion.

Your red line is actually an outer bypass and would largely function as such, with the N40 continuing to act as an inner distributor. (e.g. general traffic from say the CC to Douglas will hardly drive to the airport, across to the Coach Hill/Rochestown Road junction and back into Douglas, it will continue to use the N40). Changing the N40's role will be very difficult given the number of traffic magnets (Mahon Point, the Douglas shopping centres, Dunne's Bishopstown and the numerous Retail Parks (pseudo industrial estate complexes) that have been given permission over the years and that use the N40 as their primary access. It's very difficult to determine what the optimal solution is at this late stage. Certainly completing the Northern Distributor and the N40 North and West (completing the N40 Orbital) would alleviate pressure on the South side. An alternative, based on your drawing, would be to link the N40 at Jacobs Island to your Red Line somewhere around the Rochestown Inn, and classify your Redline as the N40 and allow it to act as a bypass, and reclassify the remaining N40 (Mahon Point to Bishopstown/Ballincollig) as the distributor road. The topography and settlement patterns of red line are another question altogether. As I said it's going to be very difficult to engineer a good solution, especially in the current anti-roads environment.

The following is a suggestion for the Cork Southern Distributor Road, essentially it takes over the N40 between the Kinsale Road and Bandon Road junctions. Between these junctions a new N40 route is built south of the existing development.

The SDR is the red line. The existing N40 between the Kinsale Road and Bandon Road junctions gets redeveloped with a general traffic land in both directions, a bus lane in both directions and segregated cycle/walking facilities along the route. It would extend east on the northern edge of the existing N40 as far as South Douglas Road, to facilitate this, the N40 would be reduced to two eastbound lanes and the J7 off ramp removed. Ideally the next off ramp as well as the westbound on ramp would also close but I don't think that will fly.

It all gets very tight on approach to South Douglas Road. An alternative would be the SDR switches from the northern side to the southern side of the existing N40 at Kinsale Road, meaning it could tie into Douglas Link Road. Or the SDR could be either side of the N40, eastbound to the north and westbound to the south. This would mean the on ramp at Douglas would definitely have to be removed.

On the northern side of the SDR, a Luas line is created from Wilton to Kinsale Road, the purple line in the image. It continues north on the South Link Road which is reduced to two lanes, one in each direction. The Wilton and Kinsale Road junctions, as well as the two overbridges, would be redeveloped as interchanges with feeder buses, junctions for cars would be signalised (with right turns), Luas given priority and pedestrian/cycle access greatly improved. A separate branch goes south to the airport and P&R at new N27 junction. I don't know if the existing Cork Luas proposal is realistic, it goes through very developed areas and there seems to be a lot of objections (even from Cork City Council). If it doesn't happen, my proposed Luas route could use the current identified route west of CUH and east along Centre Park Road.

A new N40 is built between the Kinsale Road and Bandon Road junctions. At both those junctions, it uses the existing elevated sections which are altered to turn south. The existing junctions become part of the SDR with new N40 junctions built further south with links to the N27/N71. This reduces the number of junctions on the N40 and allows it to function better as a long distance route linking mainly N roads.

A lot to like about this.

I'd even consider routing further south of the Bandon Road Roundabout too.