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Room to Improve (v2)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Settle down lads. Check the criteria for the grants. Does it stipulate pp?

    They might not as the grants arent really for the purpose of extending.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭Widdensushi




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Even more concrete than that, it's the Department of Housing that is saying that it was approved. That's a big shock to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭techman1


    Didn't eamon Ryan say alot of public sector workers only working 2 days in office, he said that because he wants to phase out free parking spaces.

    If that is the culture, then presumably council staff don't really want to be going around inspecting houses are actually vacant. You can't do that from home. Before they just wanted to stay in the office now you can't even get them into the office.

    I'd say the same culture permeates the department of integration, they seem to be taking the path of least resistance in granting the vast majority of asylum cases as genuine in stark contrast to their European contemporaries



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Its going to go down in RTE like the "try it sometime." interview :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Or pretend you are staying with a relative and stay in the house. Save yourself another 36k



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭threetrees


    This will be the last RTI IMO.

    First 2 episodes based on grants and the second with no PP. I don't care what angle DB takes, no builder should undertake work without PP. I accept his point that the initial extension was exempt as it was at the back and under the area limit but the roof line window was outside limits and should not have been completed.

    I think it portrays bad practice and will do DB architects business some damage. Isn't one to trust their architect?

    Having been through a simple PP process myself where additional information was required, there was no way my small time builder would undertake my build without everything done. We pushed out our build date because of the small delay in PP. Why is DB and RTE so different?

    Just my opinion.

    Was a lovely house in the end :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,837 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I heard from someone who applied for the show that the min budget is 250k with 100k contingency. I presume the contingency is based on grants. Since bannon knows this then he or his team behind are designing based on this. Seems to be different this year is that bannon is around more and decisions are getting made or they’ve removed that stuff



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    His definition of derelict is different to everyone else, in order to get the grant. Such brass neck, at the expense of the rest of us who do not have "pull" with the minister or fellow in the council who makes the decisions.


    Look at this house.

    If that is derelict I will eat my hat.

    Tubs left RTE and went to England over much less. I reckon Bannon has either an explanation or an apology to the nation to make.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,505 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Approval happens early on. Payout only after everything in order. Seeing as Bannon submitted a retention application, in sure he wouldnt issue certification that the works were exempt and did not need planning in order to get grant payout.

    The only way the grants could possibly be paid out at this stage is if they completed the single storey extension first and issued certification stating exempt from planning and got grant, Then did the 1st floor but imo dormer box would need planning so unlikely to have gone that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,505 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    If all on the ground was less than 40 sqm increase over the original floor area, it could have been, Subject to everything else being satisfactory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,837 ✭✭✭Trampas


    He is under Noel Kelly like tubs so Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,150 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    The fact that an architect needs an agent kinda sums up a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭boardlady


    My husband wondered was the roof asbestos (we didn't watch it all so may have missed an explanation) but when they originally bought the house, assuming they used a mortgage, the bank would have insisted that they have an engineer's report confirming that the house was structurally sound and habitable. And yet, as folks are saying, it is now "derelict"? These are issues that should certainly be highlighted now! My own home is 24 years old. It was a new build then and is far from 'derelict' or uninhabitable. We are very warm and comfortable. But yes, I would like to make certain changes and upgrades - which I can't afford. It does gall a bit to think that my bog-standard home - which is perfectly sufficient to house me and my family - will never be 'upgraded' to the dizzy heights of this house which has qualified for grants every taxpayer is contributing to. I have to admit to looking at the social housing which has been built recently in my local town .. air to water heating, probably A rated ... and yes, I doubt I will ever afford to make those upgrades. Watch this space for a public outcry I think!





  • Yes but…

    Dept are saying it was approved which means that it met the criteria, for it to have been approved a declaration was made that it met the guidelines including derelict / vacant for 2 years which from the posts on here is looks like it wasn’t.

    i have no idea of the audit process here but on the basis of evidence we see the grant form was not completed honestly.

    government departments rely heavily on honesty such as self employed tax returns are accepted in good faith and not always checked by revenue outside of a random revenue audit or medical cards applications etc etc (you could withhold savings).

    it’s simply not possible nor practicle for every form to be fully audited by the civil service.


    There are penalties for lies and hopefully this case will be investigated thouroughly. If it turns out there was dishonestly then they should pay it back and let them sue their advisor bannon but guess he has himself well covered.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    it’s simply not possible nor practical



    ...for people to be making assumptions on stuff they cannot possibly know.

    1. What was wrong with the roof and why it was deemed unsound.
    2. Did the house meet the criteria of 'derelict' or 'vacant' as per the rules not their personal definitions of the terms.


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭lmk123


    The banks don’t insist on an Engineers report confirming that the house is structurally sound or habitable. The banks get it valued to ensure it’s worth the amount of money they’re lending for it. An Engineers report is something that’s advisable for the person buying the house.

    Apologies for picking on your post because a person could go to every second post here and pick out similar points which are presented as fact but are not correct at all and thats not even including all the “my cousins wife’s brother’s neighbour applied for the same grant but was turned down even though ……” posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭gipi


    Regarding where they might have got funding, they sold a house to buy the bungalow.

    Her mother also passed away since 2020, so there might have been an inheritance.

    Both mentioned in this article




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    That was the original premise of the show. Its jumped the shark now. Crazy amounts of money, and still you have Dermot turning his nose up saying '€250,000 is quite a small budget.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Interesting in that article in the examiner ( although it reads more like a press release from the tv producers) the Quantity surveyor Claire said

    "We got €98,000 worth of grants"

    So there you have it. They did not even have full planning permission for the development but they "got €98,000 worth of grants". Not are getting them, or will get them, but "got".

    Wonder if Dermot's meeting with the minister was just to speed things up to make sure they were got?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In episode 1 he told the couple they're eligible for €30k help to buy tax back...they weren't.

    Episode 2 he says they're eligible for grants which appear to be dubious.

    He gets the couples all excited that they can now afford more, so they commit to going over budget.

    His final fee, paid by RTE, is quite possibly based on the total construction spend. So he is incentivised to get the couple to spend such as possible on the build.

    DB could be the 2024 version of Tubridy if a journalist goes on a run with this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    They mentioned getting the grants and all was sorted on that front but also mentioned the builder was happy to meet the shortfall till the grants arrived . So were they just approved and hadn’t received them or was it they were waiting for them to be approved and his meeting with minister was push the process along . It all seems very cloak and dagger..

    No way in hell any builder would take risk unless he was guaranteed in writing that the money was in the way.

    neighbour of mine bought a house which hadn’t been lived in for about 10 years , a lot of water damage and internals need gutting. He was telling me the absolute hassle and hoops he is jumping through to even get the vacant home grant is madness ( kildare county council) . They are looking for all sorts of proof it has been lived . He even invited county council officials to inspect the house and still getting no where. RTI making out it’s a simple process , definitely a few strokes pulled to get the €100,000



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭gipi


    28k of the grant was the SEAI energy upgrade grant, not related to the vacant\derelict debate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    28 k on what the design team bragged was "essentially a New-Build". Does not seem a great use of taxpayers money, or what the grant was intended for, but we are all letting that 28k go. And in both episodes this year, the more grants the couples discovered they would get, the fancier the Dermot Bannon glass box extensions got.

    What gets up peoples goat though is the cloak 'n daggers stuff with the minister (and without full planning) to get the grant for Vacant and Derelict homes, when the neighbours and everyone else know the bungalow ( sold for 303k in 2022 ) was neither vacant or derelict? This while other people in the country cannot get the grant to do what Dermot done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    was neither vacant or derelict?

    I suppose if you keep saying it, it will eventually be true.

    You have been corrected on this multiple times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Wow,what a nasty and snide comment.

    I agree lots of girls overdo it on the fake tan,it's not a good look I agree.

    I don't think that lady was an example of that though.I thought she looked gorgeous but what came across most was her lovely bubbly personality.She seemed a sound skin and the husband too.

    Bare in mind it's likely the couple and their friends and family might see this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You have been corrected on it. I would say most people on this thread were / are of the opinion there are serious questions to be asked, and serious doubts about the property being really vacant or derelict. Ask the neighbours there, they can tell you too. The house was only sold in mid 2022.

    I agree peoples appearance should not come in to it. People look at the show to find out information about grants, renovations, ideas "to let more light in etc". Many people would also like to see more info on the new BER rating ( thats the whole purpose of the 28k grant? - and Dermot said the whole series was about grants), what type new heating system ( we saw no solar panels?) was installed etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No I haven't 'been corrected'

    A property can be deemed derelict if it deemed to be unsafe.

    This property's roof was deemed unsafe.

    All you have is guesswork and conspiracy. And a refusal to accept your definition is different to the definition sought by the grant administrators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭HBC08




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Really Francie?? I think you're putting yerself way out on a limb here. This saga has legs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,000 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Well if we're talking about the same program. I don't think it does.

    Home recue is decluttering and them redecorating and adding furniture.

    They might knock a wall or close up a door.

    There's never any mention of how they heat the room, upgrading insulations, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Could Bannon (the 2nd most trusted man in Ireland) go the same way as the most trusted man in Ireland?

    They share similar characteristics and the same agent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say "A property can be deemed derelict if it deemed to be unsafe." Fine, but when Dermot went to visit the couple in the vacant home which they bought the previous year in seemingly good condition for 303k, ...the "vacant" home that had the family photos and kids toys etc - there was no mention or even suggestion even after Dermot's inspection that it was "unsafe". Poorly insulated yes, but we saw briquettes beside the fireplace so if that was lit, or the radiator turned on, it would have been warmer.

    Cold or poorly insulated by modern standards does not mean unsafe.

    For the Derelict definition to satisfy the grants, that needs to be certified by an "Independent" expert - why was that glossed over, and all the other professionals and suppliers mentioned in the list on the R to I website but no engineer who signed off condemning the roof structure? As half if not most people in the country live in houses in the same condition as the one in Cashel which sold for 303k in mis 2022, and looked fine in the photos, both inside and outside, it is all very suspicious to have it declared derelict / unsafe less than a year later, do you not agree?

    In the interests of transparency and for the benefit of others doing or considering doing "Refurbishment work on Vacant and Derelict houses", he should issue a lengthy statement or explanation, at the very least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,441 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    After Kate and Brian moved their furniture in, they quickly realised the house was cold, damp and uninhabitable, especially with two young children. “The site is fantastic but it’s freezing, the wind is howling, it’s damp and it doesn’t comply with any building regulations,” says Dermot.

    You'd think it was a beehive hut on Skellig Michael such is the hyperbole by Bannon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If it transpires that rules were broken of course it will and should.

    Nobody knows if they were.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,505 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I've about 10 clients enquiring about vacant home grant. I've done some reports confirming derelict but these were houses that have no heating, have ceilings falling down, broken windows etc. No issue there.

    The grant is clearly for the refurbishment part of the dwelling only. The spend breakdown is clearly outlined in the grant documents. All OK there

    BUT

    From what I've seen, certificate of Exemption or Compliance with Planning will be required.

    You cannot Certify half the property as being compliant so imo when planning is required for an extension, it would need to be Certified compliant before the grant is paid even if the grant is only funding the refurbishment.

    As an example of how awkward the process is proving to be, nobody I've dealt with sofar has stuck with the application despite the houses being the very definition of the type the grant is intended for.

    The major issues are no funding until end, poor response times and patchy info from council and tight time scale.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Ask the neighbours was it vacant ;) Or derelict for that matter.

    I thought those steps down in to the new extension area were dangerous as well, an accident waiting to happen. And no access for wheelchairs between kitchen/dining/living area and toilet or bedroom. And with what appeared to be an aging close relative of the owners on the show at the end, it reminds us we will all be getting on some day.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Some further updates here, aka some covering.

    Interestingly they say the lack of PP didn't affect the grants as the refurbishment was separate to the extension!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ask the neighbours was it vacant ;) Or derelict for that matter.

    Why would I do that? I not assessing them for the grant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,688 ✭✭✭Field east


    This case would make one question DB professionalism and how good an architect he is. Why? The original plans -all the ground floor developments only - were inclusive of an extension at a max of 40 sq yds which is allowed without having to apply for planning permission for it. But I think that you still have to inform the Local Authority in a prescribed way about it. Then during the development a thought struck someone that the attic could be developed into a bedroom plus bathroom. This drove the development now over the max of 40 sq yds and permission has now to be sought. So knowing DB and his apparent ‘eye for spotting things’ it never crossed his mind the development of the attic as a playroom/ bedroom. He was presented with quite a small house at the outset - three bedrooms- and a young family that one would assume had plans of ‘enlarging it’. It was stated at the outset that the roof/ ceiling were so bad that they had to be replaced so even at that point it still did not cross his mind about the development of the attic

    that was a major oversight to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Bannon needs to confirm what grants were applied for and under what criteria. The house just wasnt derelict or vacant. Its that simple. Seai grants could have brought it up to standard in terms of insulation.

    I feel sorry for the couple involved. They've suffered a lot.

    At the same time this is a show broadcast on national tv. From what we understand substantial grants have been paid.

    There are certainly questions to be answered by RTI.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,342 ✭✭✭Tow


    From the Journal:

    I find this hilarious, as will most who have had dealing or tried to get information from a Government Department.

    Link: https://www.thejournal.ie/room-to-improve-planning-permission-6274778-Jan2024/?utm_source=shortlink

    Post edited by Tow on

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,688 ✭✭✭Field east




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,442 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The roof was 'condemned' was the word used. I presume, until we actually know better, by a professional or competent person who was onsite and not looking at a photo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    I have read the same on building groups online.

    If they got the grant as shown in the episode:

    This would indicate to met that due to room to improve being used to highlight the grants available that they got a great helping hand with getting approval for the grant from the council possibly under the direction of the department.

    Obviously if it was creative editing then I would not think like the above^



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The Irish Independent report ( headline news) that "Dermot Bannon received a private briefing from Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien’s department about a government grant which was repeatedly referenced on RTÉ’s Room to Improve last weekend." It also said "Mr. Bannons producer contacted Mr. O'Briens adviser" etc


    I wish he would have contacted the relevant government department to ask about handrails on the main stairs ( there were none) and also at the side of the 3 steps down to the living area. Whatever about the aesthetics of that awful plywood on the stairs, it is very dangerous and I think against building regulations, as that raw edge of the plywood would probably not be the right height or material for a handrail? A handrail is required on all stairs, it is in the regulations.

    Regarding the 3 steps which did not seem to have a handrail ( from the angle the camera was anyway ), it is in the UK building regs as I know someone over there with a 3 step drop in his house who had to get it fitted. Right enough, I looked online and 3 steps or more ( inc the landing step) and you have to have a handrail. Not sure about the building regs here. Anyway I would have thought it would be good practice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,688 ✭✭✭Field east


    “——- and it does’nt comply with any building regulations”. What exactly does that mean when he was talking about a house that was built about the the 1960’s. The houses then were very well built and of very solid construction with the best of materials used. It was built at a time when builders took great pride in their work . Contractor and labour used were normally all local and he would normally be building one or two houses at a time - not like now when they could have several houses on the go if not building a whole estate. I assume that the house complied with all regs at the time it was build so what ‘any building regs’ before the current work started was it not complying with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,619 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Bannon seems to have a blind spot around stairs. Over the years, we've seen open risers, glass side walls, and not a handrail in sight.



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