Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Room to Improve (v2)

17374767879101

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What was unclear?

    If you meet the criteria for the various grants you get the grant. What's unclear about that?

    The only issue I can see is that there are people applying 'their own' criteria and not that laid down in the grant stipulations. Which is bonkers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭bigslick


    Our architect informed us that it wouldnt apply as the house was in sufficient enough condition to not be considered derelict (which I would agree with as it is liveable, though FREEZING in the evening at moment) and also was not vacant for long enough prior to our purchase. Though given these episodes I will re-raise the potential grants available to us with the architect and QS to see if we can look to spend more with a view to save more (which I hate the concept of....)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,426 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    This coming Sunday's episode is the renovation of the home of performance nutritionist Daniel Davey.

    Link



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,482 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Until we find out the exact purpose of the meeting it's hard to know if any favour was done.

    In my experience public officials often make decisions that suit the interests of people they are meeting.

    If they never did such meetings would never take place.

    Obviously I would condemn any wrongdoing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Are we being asked to believe that Bannon and the Minister arranged a meeting to organise some corruption/'favour' and then told the media about the meeting?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    You sound like you are renovating a property similar to the couple on sunday nights RTI. I would definitely look into the grants further because if that couple got them then I think you should qualify aswell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Extremely few people in the country have "got the grant" for Vacant and Derelict houses.

    If people see on TV the rules being bent, or deeply suspected of being bent, in order to get the grant for Vacant and Derelict houses, does'nt it merit further investigation when so much grant money was involved? The couple done well enough as it was by getting the energy upgrade grant, say €28k, and by getting a package possibly worth maybe 100k which is fair enough ( Dermot's fees paid, probably the Q.S. fees paid, discounts and deals off suppliers like M.J and the builder whose logos and signs were everywhere. ). Yes, there were slip ups from Dermots team such as the planning permission and possible ( if not probable ) lack of compliance with building regs with regards to stairs etc...but what really needs clarification is their grant for Vacant and Derelict houses.


    Nobody knows the details of the meeting yet, but the fact such a meeting took place was probably going to emerge anyway, so it could have been an attempt at damage limitation. Why else would it be mentioned? It is not as if Bannon explained the grants well on TV. A disaster. as I said, a 16 year old kid would have done better. At least he , unlike Bannon, could have studied for 10 minutes and known you cannot get the first time buyers grant, as well as all the other grants, on the 200 year old house the couple inherited in the show 11 days ago ( early jan 2024 ).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have already been told the grants are not means tested. How 'well' the couple did is therefore moot.

    There is no clarification needed from the couple, Bannon or RTE. They applied for and got the grants, therefore, unless you can prove differently they complied with the requirements.

    If you can prove something, then the issue is with the granting body as it is up to them to make an assessment of all applications and ensure they comply.

    Your 'suspicions' are not really relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The criteria for the grant is absolutely unclear to anyone who watched the show, who is left wondering how a house that has all the appearances of being lived in got a 'derelict property' grant.

    The actual having of the meeting was a favour. As said repeatedly, if an architect were to ring up looking for information on the grant, they'd get referred to the website or the local authority. When Bannon's show rings up, they get escorted in for coffee and biccies and all the information explained nicely, in a way that others wouldn't get.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The criteria for the grant is absolutely unclear to anyone who watched the show, who is left wondering how a house that has all the appearances of being lived in got a 'derelict property' grant.

    It has been explained many times on here now and it was stated on the show. If a major structure is condemned it can be deemed derelict.

    Nobody said the criteria was going to be explained, it is an entertainment show about much more than grants. All that was said was it would promote the existence of several grants.

    The actual having of the meeting was a favour. As said repeatedly, if an architect were to ring up looking for information on the grant, they'd get referred to the website or the local authority. When Bannon's show rings up, they get escorted in for coffee and biccies and all the information explained nicely, in a way that others wouldn't get.

    OK, this was explained too. The reality of modern life is that the Dept and somebody like Bannon working together to promote the grants (which have been slow to be taken up) was mutually beneficial. Nothing more sinister than that until we know different.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,441 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    why weren't the RIAI There if it was to inform/discuss the new grants ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    eh, because the RIAI don't have a prime time Sunday night TV show?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Under the actual building regulations too (as well as common sense ) , the stairs should have had a handrail.

    Part K - Stairways, Ladders, Ramps and Guards:

    The rest of us have to comply with the Building Regulations, why not Dermot Bannon? Maybe he does, but as someone else noted, some of his other shows have handrails missing too?

    Professionals acting as Assigned Certifiers are bound by the Code of Ethics and professional best practice. All new buildings and existing buildings which undergo an extension, a material alteration or a material change of use must be designed and constructed in compliance with the Building Regulations.

    N.B. Too much "bending of the rules" / loose building control went on in the past in this country ( Priory Hall, Mica etc etc ). Should'nt someone, a celebrity architect ( if he is not a celebrity why does he have Noel Kelly as agent? ) who presents a prime time Home Renovation show on the taxpayer subsidised RTE at least comply with full planning permission, building regs, grant conditions etc, and if there is a suspicion that he may not, should'nt it be investigated?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The statutory bodies tasked with ensuring compliance are happy that planning permission, building regs, grant conditions have been complied with. Your suspicions are just that until you can actually prove something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Mutually beneficial? lol.

    As I said, a 16 year old kid would have done better. At least he or she, unlike Bannon, could have studied for 10 minutes and known you cannot get the first time buyers grant, as well as all the other grants, on the 200 year old house the couple inherited in the show 11 days ago ( early jan 2024 ).

    If it was mutually beneficial, what did Mr. Bannon and his Q.S. Ms, Irwin get out of it ?

    What did the Minister's adviser get out of it ? Certainly the grants were not explained. More uncertainty than ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So its ok to build without full planning permission but get retention 3 days before a programme is aired, it is ok to possibly live in a house and just pretend is was vacant for a few years (ask the neighbours?) and its ok to build stairs without a handrail while everyone else compiles with building regs and has a handrail?

    And ok to knock most of a perfectly liveable in house without an independent expert / engineer signing off to condemn it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You might not like it, but as a qualified member of the construction forum stated, retention is a perfectly legal route to take. Look up his post (sydthebeat) he explains it better than me'

    I will defer to an expert/professional opinion before a random person's one.

    Who said an independent/engineer didn't sign off on it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,436 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Retention is a legal mechanism which exists to rectify non compliant works.

    It does not follow that it is legal to build something non compliant whether knowingly or unknowingly doing so. It is absolutely illegal.

    Retention may or may not be granted so there is alot of risk involved in going ahead without.

    In the specific case of the works being exempt except for the conversion of an attic, within a roof that would otherwise be exempt, the risk is on the lower end.

    I don't have enough info to comment on whether the ground floor proposal would actually be exempt but you would have to give the benefit of the doubt there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'd have been of the same opinion but after reading sydthebeats comment I accept that retention (in the scenario you mention above and which Bannon found himself in) is how many builds proceed.

    Absolutely agree that unscrupulously building a project by hedging bets on getting retention is wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Yes, retention is perfectly legal, but to be building something without proper planning permission, and get retention three days before it is aired on national tv, is not great practice. Much better to apply for planning permission normally, as people are told to do. After all, sometimes retention is refused, and people have to tear down the structure. Although some would say that is unlikely to happen, especially if you have had coffee and biccies in a specially requested meeting with the Minister's adviser ?

    And as regards the independent expert who would be required to sign off on a condemned roof / end wall ( if indeed the whole roof had to be condemned ( rather that just bits repaired ) ....why is his or her name conspicuous by its absence from the list of suppliers on the Room to Improve website? Everyone else is there, even the person who done the BER. Now maybe there was one, and all is in order, but as many others have suggested the roof was almost certainly surveyed when the bungalow was sold @ €303,000 the previous year, and nothing wrong found ( or the couple would have mentioned it). Dermot did not notice anything wrong, or any dampness or leaks in his inspection of the main roof of the house when he first visited, or he would have shown it. So why was the sudden condemnation and destruction of the roof / end wall etc glossed over so quickly in the middle of the programme? It seems Dermot was more concerned with the colour of roof tiles for a new roof? All a bit very strange, as lots of others have commented, and it needs clarification.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jesus, again this has been explained to you.

    Sometimes, designs can change during a build. This is what happened here.

    Nothing was out of compliance, they did something you can do under the legislation. 11,000 people did it as linked to earlier.

    I assume the roofing company called in an expert to assess the roof. The roofing company are listed and their services are there. I know roofing companies that have qualified people on a full time basis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I know all about retention planning permission, thank you very much. Retention planning permission is when an application is made to retain an unauthorised development. The fee for retention planning permission is substantially in excess of the fee that would have been paid had planning permission been applied for in advance of the development being carried out.

    Often when major changes are made to plans, the build is stopped for a period, while planning permission is sought. That happened on a previous episode of Room to Improve, I think. It is not recommended to make major changes to plans and then build away, as you could be forced to tear down your development. Although that is unlikely to happen, especially if you had coffee and biccies in a private meeting with the Ministers adviser?

    And as regards the roof, you miss an important point. It is a requirement of the grant that part of the building to be demolished is to be condemned by an independent expert. You cannot demolish all of the building, that is not what the grant is for. Having the roof condemned by a qualified person employed full time by the roofing contractor would be a conflict of interest if indeed that did happen, as it seems you suggest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn't say a full time person signed off on it. I said I know building companies who have full time qualified people because this is something that commonly needs qualified opinion.

    I presume the roofing company spotted whatever issue there was and an engineer was called in to assess. I presume that because that is normal practice. And until it is proved that something other than the norm happened there you have it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,391 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "It has been explained many times on here now and it was stated on the show. If a major structure is condemned it can be deemed derelict."

    Sorry Francie, the problem is that the issue of a 'major structure is condemned' doesn't stack up. It needs clarification from the shows producers if they wish to retain credibility.

    There are Facebook type groups that deal with many peoples experiences of these grants. One deals in depth with this episode and the majority are baffled as to how this worked, going by their experiences and interfacing with the schemes. Are they all wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If the application was accepted then everything was satisfactory from the applicants end.

    The first port of call for explanations is the granting authority. What did they base their assessment on?

    We simply don't know the answer to that so making wild claims of conspiracy up to ministerial level is wrong not to say bizarre.

    I am one of the most vocal critics of the government and this minister but even I find this bogus and motivated not by information or facts but conjecture and not a little amount of begrudgery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    'If a structure is condemned' doesn't help anyone. What is the basis for condemning a structure? Who is qualified to condemn a structure?

    The reality of modern life is that a Department has a duty to be fair and impartial. If they want to communicate to the nation, they need to put their proposals out there, and let interested parties compete on a professional basis, not play favourites with the cute and cuddly RTE celeb.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    No, but they have every architect in the country reading their newsletters and attending their CPD sessions. If you want to get people using the grants, it would help to educate the professionals involved, rather than taking a scattergun approach with a soft TV broadcast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Absolutely agree with this.

    I'd be getting creative at the very least and pay a qualified professional to condemn part of the building. I'd then challenge the council to prove it wasnt vacant.

    This kind of thing pisses me right off. Pure greed. 99k. That would retro insulate a fair few homes to a decent standard.

    But no, some architects want to have their ego rubbed and some clients availing if grants want to have an outdoor living area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,698 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The grants are not means tested so I don't think it's the couple or Bannon's fault. The prince is entitled as much as the pauper. Those who created the grants may need to look at that again.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭Kincora2017


    For the sake of accuracy on this (because I think there is some validity to some of your other points) if you looked at the link in your post you’d see that there is no mention of handrails in it.



Advertisement