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Global warming

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    I certainly don't deny that we contribute to climate change, but that climate change happens anyway, irrespective of a man-made contribution, and so Yes, I dont mind being accused of being a climate change denier ... (in that specific context).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Ahaha now I’m absolutely certain your a vegan or a just stop oil supporter!! Aka lunatic!!

    If you bothered to open your ears & listen he advocates using livestock as a TOOL To mimic nature. Basically copying the effect of what a large herd of wildebeast or any grazing herds etc do on the savannahs or what the buffalo did in mid west of USA before humans killed them all off. We don’t have to eat them but they do become a resource.

    Without oil you & I probably wouldn’t be here today and we most certainly wouldn’t have eating breakfast or coffee without it today



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    There's no scientist who denies that climate change happens. That doesn't mean that us changing the climate would be a neutral act.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    A quick lookup on that that documentary is that it's faced the exact same criticisms for ignoring the actual empirical evidence. This includes misrepresentation of statistics on the issues. The same director has previously been criticised for endorsing the likes of fracking. So yep this goes back to you being undiscerning on this issue. You consistently link to videos rather than actual studies which actually use empirical evidence. According to Savory, empirical evidence is not possible and that's what pseudoscience does.


    Also I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian,I just prefer to follow the science on scientific issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    I don’t think there’s gonna be a perfect solution that’s going to make everybody happy,

    but let me throw this out.

    If all the animals that are in feedlots in USA for example were taken out of feedlot’s & put back on the land. So no more being fed pivots of corn or monoculture of soybeans etc

    Do you think that would be better for the environment or worse?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It won't reverse or solve global warming which is the central point of the discussion. And you've not provided an ounce of proof that it will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Its not an either or, the actual solution to agricultural induced climate change is massive reduction in the eating of meat and a return to mainly localized organic market gardening with around 10% animal component. Your is and always has been a false choice based on ignorance of the real issues. This is what the UN and the world food program advocate as sustainable agriculture - not flooding the fragile grasslands with even more damaging grazers.

    You just pinned your real underlying beliefs to the wall with your last comment. Oil and Coal got us into the mess we are in and only by removing them as our primary energy source can we get ourselves out of the mess.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Whats better for the environment,

    Animals on the land or locked up being fed corn?



  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭bluedex


    I love the "That makes you a DENIER" bit. 😂

    It's like something you'd read in a piece about the Spanish Inquisition.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Yeah that’s what we’re doing for the past 200 + year’s around the world, killing off or reducing animals. And the result’s?

    global desertification, global biodiversity loss, famines, mega fires & mega floods, Famines, wars i can go on & on. Basically reductionist management.

    you’re solution would work well enough in Ireland & Uk, places that have year round humidity.

    But when those practices were brought to Africa, Australia , USA by the British year’s ago. You see the results now.

    How much oil & coal does it take to raise a organic grassfed beef animal?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Overgrazing has caused most of the issues you mention - more overgrazing is not the solution to overgrazing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    It’s us thats caused all these problem’s. Our management.

    overgrazing is a huge problem everywhere in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Snicker. How would grazing fix the Antarctic desert? /s



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Conservation (resting land) is the best tool for environments that have year round water or rain etc

    Same would go for ocean’s & river’s lakes etc, if we stopped over fishing and polluting them they tend to restore themselves.

    In Irelands case, i agree with shoogs ideas. We probably have too many cattle to produce only beef & dairy products, which means very little room left for Nature, Forestry, Pollinators, wildlife, dirty waters etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Resting natural grasslands has also been shown to be the most effective conservation measure. Appropriate grazing of farm grasslands is just about the only place where cows have a roll.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    It depends on the environment & management.

    Trust me on this, iv lived in these places & visited a lot of desert places like Outback Australia, Texas, New Mexico, California.

    There’s next to no animals on that land and havent been for decade’s in most place’s.

    They are desert because of overgrazing from whatever few bits of wildlife are there have all the time & space in the world to wonder around over grazing. Plants don’t get a chance to grow.

    If you cut your whole lawn every week, you’ll have a carpet of grass on it.

    But If you only cut 10% of it every week, your resting 90% of that same lawn.

    And when 90% of it gets time to grow it starts producing flowers and habitat for pollinator’s & insect’s etc, restoring biodiversity.

    That’s why herding animal’s need to be bunched and kept moving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The reason why these habitats are barren is because they are naturally deserts. No fancy management will change that basic fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    The Egyptians didn’t build civilisation & live for thousands of year’s on desert.

    Same as any civilisation found around the world in these dry seasonal rainfall environments.

    And the only thing that can stop it, is holistically managed livestock.

    And deserts increasing all over the world while we have wiped out so many species isn’t coincidence.

    Same in Mid West America. Hundred’s of millions of bison & buffalo lived there for thousands of year’s.

    Buffalo & bison’s gone, nearly all livestock locked up in feedlots. The result, Millions of acres of the mid west in the USA is now desert or deteriorating badly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The Egyptians used the Nile to irrigate their fields allowing them massive productivity. Beyond a narrow strip either side of the Nile they lived in Barren desert.

    What are you talking about ?

    Please go and educate yourself about desert and savannah ecology from real ecologists and stop embarrassing yourself in public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Desert ecology is very interesting stuff; have personally spent many months exploring the desert Southwest of the US especially CA and NV. Herself taught Geology at University and knows some of those deserts like the back of her hand. The flora and fauna are amazing - best camping trip I remember was going to Anza Borrego national park and getting caught in a torrential rainstorm overnight. Next day, everything was blooming, great swaths of color and life.

    To assume Humans can, or even should, f*ck with this is beyond arrogance. Leave it alone, it's beautiful and alive.


    Worried about global warming? Have fewer babies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The USA prairies are a classic example of the tragedy of the commons. They are mostly publicly owned and ranchers get licenses to graze them from the government. Since they don't own the land and don't know if their licenses will be renewed they exploit the resource to its maximum and overstock and overgraze to extract maximum profits from a shared resource. The consequence is vast areas of damaged land caused by overstocking and overgrazing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Have a think about that now. How in the name of god would anyone survive for hundreds of year’s in barren desert like it is now.

    what did they drink, what did they eat???

    You wouldn’t live one day in desert without water.

    The areas we see now in desert, they were once very green.

    Until humans came and burnt, hunted & trapped everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Egypt is still one of the most productive agricultural regions on earth for exactly the same reason it was in ancient times - irrigation from the Nile.

    Your clueless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Your the biggest imbecile iv ever talked to on this site.

    You just said Egyptian people lived in barren desert and were able to survive. What did they use before irrigation was invented.

    We’re never gonna find common ground with a vegan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Irrigation is as old as civilization. It was common in ancient Babylon. You know nothing of ecology or history. It's embarrassing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    So people just had irrigation? Just invented out of think air. Just happened for no reason?

    you’re making a show of yourself now. Nothing between the ears. Typical vegan



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Please go and get a junior cert history book and educate yourself. Your making a show of yourself here.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this thread has become unsavory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,511 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Thing is, Egypt is a net food importer now. Their population has exceeded their ability to grow enough food to be 'food secure.'

    One thing Ireland has going for it, is its food secure. We'd live on a lot of potatoes, kale and meat should we have no access to food imports, but its better than starving.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    All I’m saying is there’s billions of tonnes of carbon after being released from our management, the only thing that can start taking that out of the atmosphere is plants & trees.

    60% of the Earth’s land is desert or degraded, ocean’s & waterways wrecked,

    So we gotta get moving.



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