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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,520 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    It's not really their responsibility.

    I guess the council could've just cleared the site and put in a small park.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,762 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The OPW own 44/45 (Garda station and fines office). The rest was private, even the Fingal CC offices were sold in 2005.

    DCC had agreed not to CPO any bits of the site on the assumption that the original plans were going to go ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    Let's note that a station box was put in at the Mater, and the basement in Terminal 1 was allegedly intended as a box as well. Never underestimate the power of Official Ireland to screw things up even after they have started construction on any rail infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,810 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    IIRC it was just a retaining wall at the Mater? and the underground station at the airport is a myth

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,379 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Most on this thread know them as myths, but until a time that TII go on a major Metrolink pr drive, they will contuine to spread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    It's a good point though, the existing Dart station at Tara Street is less than ideal. At the very least this station should have a fully sheltered roof and the curve removed. The curve itself is quite severe and the platforms are too narrow for the number of users here. You'd hope IE will have a plan for this station following the ML construction but given how they totally underutilise the newly built second entrance, I'm not holding out much hope. It's actually laughable that so much money was spent on second entrances at both Tara and Pearse only for them to be opened over very limited hours. I will put money on it that the same will happen with the new and much touted Preton Street entrance of Connolly.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sorry, I know this is off topic and it should really have it's own thread.

    The above is a great example of how the CIE companies use to be (and maybe still are) obsessed with a gated/closed system and how it leads to a much worse experience for public transport users!

    This sort of nonsense of closed entrances and thus longer walks shows how lucky we are that Luas and Metrolink are open systems.

    Other examples are various DART stations with entrance only on one end, forcing a very long walk to access the DART platform that you are walking right by! See Killester station for a ridiculous example.

    I wonder would DART be significantly improved if it was switched to an open system like Luas/Metrolink. It practically is already outside the city!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Most suburban staions on the Dart have at least one barrier left open since theres rarely staff there. The likes of Seapoint and Glasthule have even completely done away with barriers, with luas style validators in their place!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yep and it leads to a situation that is almost the worst of both worlds. On the one hand they have the cost of maintaining gates and extraordinary extra costs like the stupid pedestrian bridge in Killester, but then don’t use them half the time and they don’t have the same sort of robust ticket checkers that Luas has.

    These sort of gates only work if you can actually staff them, if there is no staff there, far too easy to jump and have to be left open for health and safety reasons anyway. Given the staff shortage issues across public transport, there can’t realistically staff those stations. I’d argue remove them completely, save on the maintenance cost of them and instead put the limited staff resources into more robust Luas style ticket checkers. Yes keep the ticket checkers in the city centre stations, but also far more roaming teams through the network.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Good point.

    They should have multiple entrances.

    Sandymount is another example. Should be entrance in Serpentine AVE side. Huge amount of office workers there.

    Worth emailing Eamon Ryan about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    there's a footpath from Serpentine Ave to Sandymount station. Opening up the private "Bankcentre" gate into Lansdowne Road would be more useful.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I know that but you've to walk all the way to Sandymount Ave. They could have an entrance at the closer end of the platform.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it would save you less than a minute of walking, can't see it happening.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It is pretty insane that you would be literally walking right next to the platform, but can't get on it! According to Google Maps it would reduce it from a 5 minute walk to a 3 minute one.

    Sure, not massive, but there isn't anything more off putting for public transport then seeing a DART right next to you, but you can't get to it and it will be gone by the time you get around and have to wait for the next one.

    Just take a look how you'd get from the N4 stop next to Killester DART station to the actual entrance, completely stupid stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,520 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Irish Rail needs a wholesale review of its accessibility at stations. Dunboyne is another great example if you want to get a train from Dublin to Dunboyne and you get off at the outbound platform you have a 1km circle to walk to actually get to town instead of just knocking down the wall and linking it to the neighbouring estate. I wouldn't be shocked if the preston street entrance at connolly doesnt happen or ends up happening but staff refuse to open it. Like back when Dublin Bus but 2 door buses but drivers point blank wouldnt opem centre doors



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    But back to the point about Tara Street and the interchange between Dart and Metrolink: how is Irish Rail going to facilitate the interchange on their side given that this is already the country's busiest station without a ML interchange present? Will the new Dart fleet facilitate a step-free interchange at this station given the severe curving of the platforms? Which existing Irish Rail Tara Street entrance will be most used for ML interchanges (the old or the new one)? It seems to me that Tara is a terrible interchange because the station is so restricted and not up to the current standards so where is the effort to address those shortcomings and is it in the existing RO or not? A symptom of this is the sheer number of staff that IR need to station on the platforms just to ensure nobody literally falls through the cracks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,520 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    By closing the southern entrance most of the time silly



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Looking at Google Maps, it looks like you could extend Tara Streets platform 100 meters south, which would remove most if not all of the curve.

    Now that would move the platform further away from the current entrance. But it would line up perfectly with the Metrolink station. Build a new entrance to the DART station next to the Metrolink station and it would put you almost in the middle of the extended platform.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Wouldn't be surprised if the station gets redeveloped post Metrolink, especially since the plan seems to be to convert the arches into retail units.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yes, Tara St redevelopment will be post Metrolink, and probably won't even be included in the Dart+ programme, unless they add on a D+ Central project. I can fully understand why the NTA has chosen not to redevelop the station at the same time, as the Metrolink project is going to be incredibly disruptive to transport in Dublin, with two different train lines (which should be Dart at that point) being completely severed for months at a time at Glasnevin. Most likely, they've realised that any redevelopment at Tara St will result in the station being closed for months as well, possibly even requiring track realignment, meaning that the disruption would be far too great when you put it all together.

    I'd guess that they'll open the Metrolink, and then say "Look, it's operating great, but it could be even better of we just do X", thus justifying the coming disruption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I think any redevelopment of Tara would involve a much bigger redevelopment of the loop line bridge.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I completely agree with what CatInABox above.

    Here is what a redeveloped Tara Street might look like:

    • Extend the platform 100 meters south, see the purple line or the Google Maps measurement.
    • The Red box is more or less the Metrolink station box. 1 and 2 or the two entrances to it.

    Add a new entrance to Tara Street station right next to the Metrolink entrance 2, the green arrow. It would be like a 2 metere walk from Metrolink entrance to this new entrance, could even put a canopy over it. Straight up the stairs and you would be almost in the middle of the new extended DART platform with no curves.

    Obviously also keep the existing Tara St entrance. Maybe just put tall barriers along that section of platform or even close it off and make it a corridor.

    This feels to me like it would create a great interchange, that should have no problem handling high numbers and would fix the issues that Tara St currently have.

    I like that it doesn't involve any changes to Metrolink, which we just need to get built. Similar to early discussed changes to the Abbey Street Red line station, it would be a separate project that could come once Metrolink is built. Thus reducing risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    It's a shame they can't straighten the loop-line bridge and put the Tara platforms spanning both sides of the Liffey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    They're constructing a new building in that location, you can see its foundations in the satellite map. It looks like they're might be space to extend the platforms but I wouldn't count on it.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Wonder why the windows are bigger than the building they've been built onto.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, I just looked at the Railway Order submitted to ABP and in the report for Tara St they say the following:

    We anticipate that a major refurbishment of Tara Rail Station will be required but this is not included in the MetroLink scope as it is an Irish Rail responsibility.

    They don't come out and say it, but it is obvious that they expect the southern entrance to Tara Street to become permanent and for Irish Rail to redevelop it and for it the become the primary interchange between the two.

    And frankly with the new Plaza that comes with the Metrolink Station, it would be a no brainer for Irish Rail to develop the space under the arches as retail space. It will become one of the busiest locations in the country, a prime location for the likes of Starbucks, etc. to set up shop and grab all that passing trade. It could be a real money maker for Irish Rail if they play their cards right.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The space left is the same space as the DART platforms further along. So they clearly have thought about it and left the space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    They probably just have a minimum clearance distance between buildings and the line. I wouldn't assume they've considered extending the platforms towards that building. If they had, the building wouldn't have been approved.

    I don't think it's a good idea to move Tara St further south. This would leave <300m to the start of Pearse Street station, but extend the distance to Connolly Dart platforms to 900m.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    We will have to agree to disagree so, if you look at Google Maps, I think it is clear they left the perfect amount of space for platforms. And I don't see why they would need clearance space for the buildings. There are other buildings built right up to the train tracks, so why would this be different? Why wouldn't they want to maximum the amount of space they can sell to developers?

    To be honest, the picture you showed looks like the perfect building design to leave space to incorporate a platform.

    I know it moves it closer to Pearse, but Tara and Pearse are already silly close, the sort of distance you'd expect between bus stops not heavy rail stations. But it is just a historical quirk of the railway network and I don't think moving it closer would make any real difference or any further from Connolly. BTW of course, keep the existing northern Tara Street entrance.



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