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Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

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    #932
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640126#Comment_121640126

    We are one of only two countries who have a sovereign people, the other being Switzerland, where I live. Your post is backward and out of date as you clearly know very little about democracy and our strong position versus most European nations in particular. You would do yourself a great service if you stoped listening to the talking heads and spent some time fact checking. This discussion or even the possibility of you getting to make such a change could not even happen in any other Europe state but Switzerland, that is how far from reality you actually are.



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    #933
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640243#Comment_121640243

    You are literally insane. Do you really think that ireland and Switzerland are the only European nation that can have a referendum on their constitution? Really? I don't know how to argue with such utter bullshit.

    Poland had a referendum on their constitution in 1997.

    Is just one example



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    #934
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640144#Comment_121640144

    How does removing the term "woman" give anyone the same rights. They could add the term men if that were the case.

    I've no doubt all the feminists will be voting yes, they are the same women who would proudly protest a "Let women speak" event, or any event/talk that the feminist movement decides no one should hear.

    Why do you think men and unmarried fathers don't have the same rights as women and unmarried mothers, isn't the term being removed because of the misogynist language, how can it be misogynist if it affords women more rights than men?



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    #935
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640380#Comment_121640380

    How does it afford women more rights than men?



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    #936
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640408#Comment_121640408

    I never said it did, the poster I was replying to did.....try to keep up!!



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    #937
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640417#Comment_121640417

    No she didn't say that at all. Show me where she said that. Because I don't see it anywhere.



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    #938
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640428#Comment_121640428

    This is what (the person who's gender identity I do not know) said.

    "Not sure how giving men, and unmarried families the same rights as women and married families is anything to do with feminism though?" .... now bear with me, I'll try and explain this, that statement suggests that the constitution affords women more rights than men and unmarried fathers.



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    #939
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640452#Comment_121640452

    Right. Well I'll let her answer for herself as I don't know exactly what angle she was coming from.


    What are your thoughts on the referendum Silentcorner?



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    #940
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,662 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640452#Comment_121640452

    By specifically singling out women in the home, they are given special protection. Not men though.

    The family has been based on the married family. Unmarried families do not have the same protections as married families. Which excludes a massive part of society. Unmarried fathers are not even automatic guardians to their own children!



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    #941
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640308#Comment_121640308

    As I have already pointed out to you, you really do need to stop listening to the talking heads and do some fact checking. Start by reading of the Polish constitution, since you decided to reference it and understand once again just how far from reality you actual are, A235 should give you a hint, but I would not count on it. As I already pointed out only Ireland and Switzerland have a sovereign people, a point completely lost of you and this is key to you even getting to have this discussion. Now I am happy to continue this discussion, but you are going to have to do an awful lot of genuine research and stop using vulgar language, if you don't want to embarrass yourself with this nonsense. The choice is yours.



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    #942
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640507#Comment_121640507

    Jim youre posts are totally idiotic.

    First of all you said that only in Ireland or Switzerland , could I vote to change a constitution.

    I told you that you were wrong. In many European countries, people have the right to vote to change their constitution. Poland is one example. Do you want me to show you an exact list of all the other countries in Europe where people can vote to change their constitution? Because there are lots of countries in Europe where you can vote to change the constitution.

    Seriously what the Hell are you on about?



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    #943
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640484#Comment_121640484

    So we agree, it is not misogynist language then, you just don't believe women who work full time in the home should be afforded any constitutional protection!!



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    #944
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    Can anyone on here decipher the mystery that Jim2007 keeps writing :

    "Only Ireland and Switzerland have a sovereign people"



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    #945
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,662 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640537#Comment_121640537

    I never said it was misogynistic.

    I don't believe one sex should receive extra protection above the other no. If they want to give protection to those who work in the home, it should be everybody.



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    #946
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640538#Comment_121640538

    I can kinda see his point when I look back at history of referendums for EU treaty’s. Other EU states have been able to pass them without need for a referendum. It appears harder to bypass the Irish constitution.



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    #947
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640562#Comment_121640562

    That is not what he said.

    He said that

    "you clearly know very little about democracy and our strong position versus most European nations in particular. This discussion or even the possibility of you getting to make such a change could not even happen in any other Europe state but Switzerland, that is how far from reality you actually are."


    He said that I would not be even able to make a change to the constitution unless I lived in ireland or Switzerland.

    Which is utter rubbish. It's so wrong it's laughable



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    #948
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640558#Comment_121640558

    I didn't say you did, I said the reason the term is being removed is because of the so called misogynist language, that is what our Politicians are telling us...



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    #949
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640537#Comment_121640537

    What constitutional protection are they offered now? With the article worded as it is in the constitution.

    Can you give some factual examples.



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    #950
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640537#Comment_121640537

    She didn't say that women who work full time in the home shouldn't be offered constitutional protection. You just made that up.

    She clearly said "everybody that works in the home should be given constitutional protection. Men and women"



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    #951
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    The financial times website have written this about the upcoming Irish referendum.

    "The failure to update the constitution on this matter is a glaring omission, given that the 86-year-old legal text has already been amended in recent years to get rid of bans on abortion and divorce, and to permit same-sex marriage.

    The 1937 constitution was controversial from day one: Hanna Sheehy Skeffington, a suffragette and activist, blasted the text as a “fascist model in which women would be relegated to permanent inferiority”. In the following decades, progress on women’s rights was slow: only in the last half century have Irish women been able to drink a pint in a pub, serve on a jury, collect family allowance or refuse sex with their husbands."



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    #952
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    Poor women. We've had a raw deal.



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    #953
    sky is the limit
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭sky is the limit


    As a matter of interest what are the chances of a no vote given the current utter distrust in the present government? I’m undecided and I don’t want my own personal opinions on this government to colour my thinking which is why I’m still undecided. Is it likely to be a close run affair or a shoe-in for the yes side ?



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    #954
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm voting in favour of anything which chips away at De Valera's idiotic sectarian "a catholic nation for a catholic people" constitution.

    Really the whole thing needs to be rewritten and take all the "god" crap out of it too.

    Apparently we are not sovereign people because all power derives from this mythical figure "almighty god", and that's not all, the constitution obliges us to worship "almighty god" as well.

    The constitution should fit on both sides of an A4 page in very large type, there should be nothing in there about how long you have to be separated to get a divorce or any other crap along those lines.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #955
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328351#Comment_120328351

    In terms of holding them seperately to other elections which would basically negate the cost - yes, absolutely agree.

    In terms of negating the backward holy catholic terminology that Dev and McQuaid wrote the Constitution in? Long overdue.

    Quoting an older post but in an actgive thread so hopefully will be forgiven!



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    #956
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642147#Comment_121642147

    I agree with you. Eamon devaleras ramblings should in no way be our country's constitution today.



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    #957
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640537#Comment_121640537

    What constitutional protection do they need exactly?

    Do men who work full time in the home need constitutional protection?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #958
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    I for one am very happy that we are moving forward from Irelands old Catholic grip. McQuaid drafted a lot of our constitution and he by all accounts,was not a very nice man.

    We are getting progressive! Next thing we might even have (gasp) more schools that are non catholic. Which are badly needed.



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    #959
    chacha11
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭chacha11


    Jesus I just looked up McQuaid. I knew he was a bad man. But I didn't know how bad he is was. It says that he was accused of paedophile abuse.

    This is the man that wrote a large part of our current constitution.



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    #960
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640507#Comment_121640507

    Under our ridiculous constitutional preamble, all authority is derived from "The Most Holy Trinity" whatever nonsense that is.

    I've yet to see a party in the Dail propose to reform or abolish this rubbish, but it's supposedly an essential part of our fundamental law.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #961
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642188#Comment_121642188

    At the current rate of progress we will reach 50% of non-catholic schools by the year 2300.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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