Is using 2 pin plugs in Ireland safe ?

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 1:19pm

pegasus1 wrote: »

The fuse, wheather it be in the distribution board or on a plug is there to protect the cable, not the appliance! end of!

Nothing worse than that phrase `end of`, except a kick in the town halls:D

user1842 · 25-05-2011 1:21pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Nothing worse than that phrase `end of`:D

Also the fuse is not there to protect the cable, it there to protect the person in case of shock or house in case of fire

M cebee · 25-05-2011 1:22pm

pegasus1 wrote: »

The fuse, wheather it be in the distribution board or on a plug is there to protect the cable, not the appliance! end of!

ya thanks for that

appliance cord=cable

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 1:24pm

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Also the fuse is not there to protect the cable, it there to protect the person in case of shock or house in case of fire

Actually, no, the 3 amp fuse will never blow no matter how severe a person is getting shocked, unless the 2 conductors happen to come in contact during the event. That is what the RCD is for, although that will not trip on a Live to Neutral shock while insulated from the ground, but neither will a 3 amp fuse, not a hope. If 3 amps flows through a person, its almost certain instant death, and would in fact take far higher than 230v to achieve.

0.03 amps is the danger level roughly, and 3 amps is 100 times this.

user1842 · 25-05-2011 1:30pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Actually, no, the 3 amp fuse will never blow no matter how severe a person is getting shocked, that is what the RCD is for, although that will not trip on a Live to Neutral shock, but neither will a 3 amp fuse, not a hope. If 3 amps flows through a person, its almost certain instant death, and would in fact take far higher than 230v to achieve.

0.03 amps is the danger level roughly, and 3 amps is 100 times this.

Sorry have to disagree with you there. If you grab a damaged cable and short the live and neutral with your hand the fuse will blow and a will probably save your life. It all depends how long the current is flowing through you.

Also im not sure how the RCD would trip if you hold the live and neutral while not touching anything and wearing shoes.

golfdiva · 25-05-2011 1:50pm

Sorry probably a total noob question. Say when I put the 3 amp fuse into the 4 gang extension cord. Is it ok to use the all 4 slots at the same time? Theres not a danger it would get overloaded or anything?

jimmyw · 25-05-2011 1:53pm

But sure the extension cable will have a fuse too.

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 1:56pm

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Sorry have to disagree with you there. If you grab a damaged cable and short the live and neutral with your hand the fuse will blow and a will probably save your life. It all depends how long the current is flowing through you.

But the 3 amp fuse is not saving you there as such, the short is, as i clearly mention in my post you quoted, and you decided to leave that part out for some reason when you quoted,, here it is again,

the 3 amp fuse will never blow no matter how severe a person is getting shocked, unless the 2 conductors happen to come in contact

And if there is no 3 amp fuse, it would be expected the MCB will trip if you happen to short the cable while getting electrocuted. If you are getting electrocuted, you will need a very high degree of luck to short the circuit if you are getting a shock from contact from one hand to another. If you just have the 2 conductors in one hand, and are insulated from the ground in shoes like you suggest, then your not in as much danger of being killed.

Also im not sure how the RCD would trip if you hold the live and neutral while not touching anything and wearing shoes.

The fact you mentioned shoes insulating you from the ground and not touching anything else is a good indication you know what your talking about anyway. They definitely do that in dry conditions.

But again, not reading my post properly, again, a refresher

That is what the RCD is for, although that will not trip on a Live to Neutral shock while insulated from the ground

So the thing is, if you are getting a shock L-N, a 3 amp fuse will not blow, except if you happen to short the conductors. If you have one in each hand, thats the real danger, and your probably most unlikely to manage to short them.

If you have both in one hand, then there is not going to be a life threatening shock, except if to earth as well through touching earthed metal etc, and thats where the RCD comes in, and is the only real function of an RCD, although it has other side benefits.

Obviously if you manage to touch both conductors during a severe shock, the 3 amo fuse will blow, and the lower the fuse, the easier it will go.

But realistically, the conductors wont short, and a 3 amp fuse will never blow from the current drawn through a severe shock.

Also, the 3 amp fuse only protecting the cable, it is there to protect the cable from on going overloading primarily. But if for example a trasnformer inside a tv develops a problem, the fuse may well blow, reducing the risk of fire for example. So they do have secondary benefits, just like an RCD.

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 1:58pm

golfdiva wrote: »

Sorry probably a total noob question. Say when I put the 3 amp fuse into the 4 gang extension cord. Is it ok to use the all 4 slots at the same time? Theres not a danger it would get overloaded or anything?

You can use the other outlets, the fuse stops them from being overloaded. Although i would recommend only using it for items to do with the aquarium.

JustAddWater · 25-05-2011 2:03pm

golfdiva wrote: »

How could you tell if the plug is a transformer as well ?

this...

user1842 · 25-05-2011 2:06pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Again, not reading my post properly, again, a refresher

So the thing is, if you are getting a shock L-N, a 3 amp fuse will not blow, except if you happen to short the conductors. If you have one in each hand, then thats the real danger, and unlikely to manage to short them.

If you have both in one hand, then there is not going to be a life threatening shock, except if to earth as well through touching earthed metal etc, and thats where the RCD comes in, and is the only real function of an RCD, although it has other side benefits.

Obviously if you manage to touch both conductors during a severe shock, the 3 amo fuse will blow, and the lower the fuse, the easier it will go.

But realistically, the conductors wont short, and a 3 amp fuse will never blow from the current drawn through a severe shock.

Also, the 3 amp fuse only protecting the cable, it is there to protect the cable from on going overloading primarily. But if for example a trasnformer inside a tv develops a problem, the fuse may well blow, reducing the risk of fire for example. So they do have secondary benefits, just like an RCD.

Sorry your right I didn't read that correctly, apologies.

robbie7730 wrote: »

But the 3 amp fuse is not saving you there, the short is, as i clearly mention in my post you quoted, and you decided to leave that part out for some reason when you quoted,, here it is again,

And if there is no 3 amp fuse, it would be expected the MCB will trip if you happen to short the cable while getting electrocuted. If you are getting electrocuted, you will need a very high degree of luck to short the circuit if you are getting a shock from contact from one hand to another. If you just have the 2 conductors in one hand, and are insulated from the ground in shoes like you suggest, then your not in as much danger of being killed.

I might suggest that in case of an exposed cable fault and you do grab the cable you will cause a short, live and neutral exposed in this case. Even if the bridge is made over a small portion of skin, this will be enough for a massive current to flow thus blowing the fuse.

If only the live is exposed then the RCD will protect you.

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 2:17pm

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Sorry your right I didn't read that correctly, apologies.

I might suggest that in case of an exposed cable fault and you do grab the cable you will cause a short, live and neutral exposed in this case. Even if the bridge is made over a small portion of skin, this will be enough for a massive current to flow thus blowing the fuse.

The main current here will be just flowing through the short in the cables though, and not though the skin. But a very nice burn will acompany the above probably. Its true as well, conductors in contact very close together on the skin can probably cause a nice burn as well at 230v.

If only the live is exposed then the RCD will protect you.

Yes definitely true, and also certainly true, your suggestion that standing in shoes and touching nothing else, and not enough current will flow to trip an RCD. In fact, if your only in contact with a live conductor, not enough current will flow to percieve it. I seen this a few times in practice. So the RCD will protect on this situation, as if more than the danger level 30ma`s flows, you will trip it.

sharkbite1983 · 25-05-2011 3:10pm

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Also the fuse is not there to protect the cable, it there to protect the person in case of shock or house in case of fire

Nope! Robbie is right, if I grab a live cable fused @ 3 amps, it means id need to conduct more than 3 amps through my body before it blows. anything above .05 amp is enough to kill.

Fuses are short pieces of cable, a weak link in a circuit that will blow before the cable melts, thus isolating power before the rest of the cable blows the same way the fuse does!!

They will also protect appliances, what is known as discrimination means the fuse closest to the fault should blow first. ie internal fuse will blow in faulty appliance, plug fuse should blow with short in cable, MCB should blow if damaged feed from board, main 63 amp fuse should blow if fault in panel tanel flex in board & ESB 80 amp should blow in your meter if theres a fault in the 16mm sq cable feeding your fuse board etc.

Golfdiva, do whatever you want you wont get fried!! 3 amp fuse in your extension lead plug sounds the best. You will still be able to use the lead for other things, but it would overload easy enough, 3 amps is less than 700 watts, so use an ext lead & designate it for your tank. I have the same sort of set up with different timers in the ext lead for lights, heaters etc.

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 3:17pm

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

Golfdiva, do whatever you want you wont get fried!! 3 amp fuse in your extension lead plug sounds the best. You will still be able to use the lead for other things, but it would overload easy enough, 3 amps is less than 700 watts, so use an ext lead & designate it for your tank. I have the same sort of set up with different timers in the ext lead for lights, heaters etc.

Only the fuse will be overloaded really, not to concern golfdiva by thinking they are overloading the lead itself. Designate it for the tank and it will be fine as said here. There is no way of overloading the lead and extension plugs themselves. All that would happen is the fuse will go.

So you wont do any harm plugging in your vacuum cleaner into the spare 2 outlets etc, but could blow the fuse leaving your aquarium out of operation.

Of course, you can use the other half of the socket for anything you like if its a twin socket the lead is actually plugged into.

golfdiva · 25-05-2011 3:38pm

What I was going to use on the extension cord is the filter which is 20W , a UV-C water clarifier which is 9W and the heater ( I'm not to sure what this uses) All these came with the 2 pin plug.All 3 items will be on constantly.

I wont overload the fuse with this setup?

Peter Sweeney · 25-05-2011 3:40pm

Will be reasonable safe if there is a RCD on the main fuse panel

sharkbite1983 · 25-05-2011 3:42pm

Nope golfdiva, plug them all into the the ext lead & plug the lead into the wall socket, & enjoy watching your fish!!

sharkbite1983 · 25-05-2011 3:42pm

Peter Sweeney wrote: »

Will be reasonable safe if there is a RCD on the main fuse panel

stop confusing things!!!!

Solair · 25-05-2011 3:44pm

Those are very low powered appliances.

With an extension cord, it is not a particularly good idea to use them as a long-term solution. However, what you're describing are very low wattage appliances so the load will be pretty tiny.

Power-strips i.e. extension leads with multiple sockets, are used like that for IT equipment etc all the time.

I am assuming they have 2-pin European plugs, rather than US or Chinese? i.e. 2 round pins?

Ideally, you should cut the European plugs off and fit Irish ones instead. Appliances that size should, ideally, be have a 3amp fuse fitted in the plug instead of the standard 13amp one. It just gives the cable a bit of extra protection.

Incidentally, you can't over-load a fuse. It will just blow. It is there precisely to prevent you from overloading the wiring.

sharkbite1983 · 25-05-2011 3:47pm

Solair wrote: »

Those are very low powered appliances.

With an extension cord, it is not a particularly good idea to use them as a long-term solution. However, what you're describing are very low wattage appliances so the load will be pretty tiny.

Power-strips i.e. extension leads with multiple sockets, are used like that for IT equipment etc all the time.

I am assuming they have 2-pin European plugs, rather than US or Chinese? i.e. 2 round pins?

Ideally, you should cut the European plugs off and fit Irish ones instead. Appliances that size should, ideally, be have a 3amp fuse fitted in the plug instead of the standard 13amp one. It just gives the cable a bit of extra protection.

Incidentally, you can't over-load a fuse. It will just blow. It is there precisely to prevent you from overloading the wiring.

youre like a parrot!!! just plug it into the bloody extension lead!!!

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 3:50pm

Solair wrote: »

With an extension cord, it is not a particularly good idea to use them as a long-term solution. .

True, although its a power stip the OP will be getting with 4 outlets and a short lead and plug, according to an earlier post, rather than a wound up long lead, not great to use these in the coiled up state alright for long periods.

Bruthal · 25-05-2011 3:54pm

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

youre like a parrot!!! just plug it into the bloody extension lead!!!

Its a very good point he made though, long wind up extension leads are not a good idea to use for long term, while coiled up or partly coiled up anyway, i know the OP is not getting one, but others might see the post about using coiled up leads.

delly · 25-05-2011 3:54pm

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

stop confusing things!!!!

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

youre like a parrot!!! just plug it into the bloody extension lead!!!

I don't think we really need so many exclamation marks, in other words chill out a bit

Solair · 25-05-2011 3:58pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

True, although its a power stip the OP will be getting with 4 outlets and a short lead and plug, according to an earlier post, rather than a wound up long lead, not great to use these in the coiled up state alright for long periods.

With the very small load the poster is talking about, it's not really relevant.

It's a totally different issue if someone's proposing to run kitchen appliances, washing machine/dryer or heaters etc off an extension lead.

The poster's total power demand for that fish tank is less than a small lamp.

If it were any higher, you would have cooked fish !!

paddy147 · 26-05-2011 4:13pm

golfdiva wrote: »

Hi

First of all I know very little about electrics.

I recently bought some electrical equipment from Germany and they came with the 2 rounded pins.

What I done is just push in the earth and fit the plug direct to the socket.

Is this safe to do this ?

Is there any advantage to me fitting the standard 3 pin plug has opposed to what I've done at the moment?

Thanks

I recently bought a digital CO2 injection kit for my fish tank from Germany.

Same as you,it came with a 2 pin European spec plug.The 2 pin plug with my CO2 injection kit was and is also a "transformer" plug too,so it cant be simply cut off as people seem to think.Doing that would be VERY DANGEROUS.

So I simply bought an adaptor and then set it up on a timer to switch on and off with the tank lights.

Works a treat and no issues.

Simples.:)

Solair · 26-05-2011 4:42pm

Just use that with an adapter: (These are available in most hardware stores)

13AMP%20SCHUKO%20ADAPTOR%20PLUG.jpg

This is the correct type of adapter to use with continental Euorpean earthed and non-earthed plugs.

This is the standard continental CEE 7/7 earthed plug used in all countries, except Denmark, Italy and Switzerland which still have their own way of earthing with a 3rd pin.

French version (accepts same plug)

The earth is connected with those clips at either side of the plug, or with a pin protruding from the socket (French version) The same plug fits both. The sockets are also recessed to make it impossible to touch the live pins when you are inserting the plug.

All European countries, except the UK, Ireland, Cyprus and Malta use the standard small 2.5amp 2-pin flat plug for small appliances.

And this is the 16amp unearthed version :

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFCgAro4TQhcrrL_xMfLmq1-iVIx1m-JAwggpf92YkQuqO2l0&t=1

for large appliances like vacuum cleaners, hairdryers etc.

Hope that helps explain things!

paddy147 · 26-05-2011 4:46pm

Can I also suggest that anyone who is going to buy an adaptor,that you DO NOT buy it from BnQ or Woodies or Homebase,as they are an absolute RIPP OFF on prices.:mad::mad:

Go and get an adaptor from your electrical wholesaler for a fraction of the cost,or even Ikea.

Cheap as chips when compared to Woodies or BnQ.

Solair · 26-05-2011 4:55pm

Yup absolutely.

In general those stores are a total rip off on most electrical fittings.

Just make sure you get the correct type of adaptor. There are some totally rubbish adapters on sale that accept all sorts of crazy configurations of plugs and none of them correctly.

The one above is ideal as it has an actual continental European socket on the back, not some approximation of it.

Solair · 26-05-2011 9:28pm

sharkbite1983 wrote: »

youre like a parrot!!! just plug it into the bloody extension lead!!!

Oh thanks so much! Such a wonderful contribution to the thread.

[/sarcasm]

Bruthal · 27-05-2011 9:05am

paddy147 wrote: »

Same as you,it came with a 2 pin European spec plug.The 2 pin plug with my CO2 injection kit was and is also a "transformer" plug too,so it cant be simply cut off as people seem to think.Doing that would be VERY DANGEROUS.

Did you see the plug on the OP`s filter? Its nothing like the obvious transformer one in your pic. Its a 2.5 amp 2 pin plug.

paddy147 · 27-05-2011 1:58pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Did you see the plug on the OP`s filter? Its nothing like the obvious transformer one in your pic. Its a 2.5 amp 2 pin plug.

Yes I know that.

What Im saying is that I have seen many people simply chop off the 2 pin transformer end of their applience and think thats its just a case of whacking on a normal 3 pin plug.

Hense me saying that this it a no no and very very dangerous to do.

Buy a 2 pin to 3 pin plug adaptor instead.:)

bette · 27-05-2011 2:27pm

What is wrong with plugging in the two pin directly into the 3 pin socket? If there's a standard installation in the house the RCB will trip in case of a snag.

Bruthal · 27-05-2011 2:33pm

bette wrote: »

What is wrong with plugging in the two pin directly into the 3 pin socket? If there's a standard installation in the house the RCB will trip in case of a snag.

As has already been said in the thread, the difference between the 2 pin plug used directly, or using it through a short extension power strip, or fitting a 3 pin plug, or using a fused adaptor is it will now have a fuse covering the appliance power chord. The RCD does not come into it here with a non earthed and likely double insulated appliance.

bette · 27-05-2011 2:39pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

As has already been said in the thread, the difference between the 2 pin plug used directly, or using it through a short extension power strip, or fitting a 3 pin plug, or using a fused adaptor is it will now have a fuse covering the appliance power chord. The RCD does not come into it here with a non earthed and likely double insulated appliance.

How does that work in the country of origin of said appliance?

Bruthal · 27-05-2011 2:52pm

bette wrote: »

How does that work in the country of origin of said appliance?

Im sure it works fine there, and it will work directly plugged in here, but in ireland we have fused plugs on our 20amp or 32amp socket circuit powered appliances. The fuse is an added safety device. If an appliance develops a fault then a proper rated plug fuse would make it less likely to go on fire etc, even though the fuse is primarily to protect the appliance power chord from a continous overload. Such an overload that the fuse is designed to protect the cable from, would likely be as a result of a fault in the appliance, or from damage to the cable causing a short or partial short circuit.

The OP question was is it safe to use the 2 pin plug, and the answer is it is required to have a fuse in plugs of appliances used in ireland.

bette · 27-05-2011 3:08pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

The OP question was is it safe to use the 2 pin plug, and the answer is it is required to have a fuse in plugs of appliances used in ireland.

So, is it safe?

Bruthal · 27-05-2011 3:20pm

bette wrote: »

So, is it safe?

Indeed it is, as long as nothing ever goes wrong with the appliance, which it might never do. So its not overly dangerous. So if you are in the same position, then use fuseless plugs if you wish, if you prefer not to go and get a fused plug. There was a time we had no RCD`s, was it safe before them?

bette · 27-05-2011 3:51pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Indeed it is, as long as nothing ever goes wrong with the appliance, which it might never do. So its not overly dangerous. So if you are in the same position, then use fuseless plugs if you wish, if you prefer not to go and get a fused plug. There was a time we had no RCD`s, was it safe before them?

Good answer, thanks for that.

Solair · 27-05-2011 5:22pm

Yes, it is perfectly safe, provided it is connected with a fused adapter.
these plugs are normally used with sockets on 16 amp circuits

If it is used with a fused adapter, or plugged into an extension lead, which has a normal 13amp plug, then it would be at least as safe as it would be when used in a french our german wall socket.

Obviously, you cannot cut off a transformer with a plug built into it !!

forfcksake · 20-01-2024 10:24am

Hi

I have a similar question here.

We got a reverse osmosis unit installed recently, and I realised they plugged in a 2 pin plug into the 3 pin socket.

There is an AC/DC adapter on the cable as well (See pics attached if any help)

I wondering what is the best thing to do.

Is it cut off the 2 pin and replace with 3 pin? if so, what amp fuse should be used?

or is it just easier to get a 2 pin to 3 pin adapter? like https://www.screwfix.ie/p/masterplug-3-pin-fused-shaver-adaptor/966JJ?gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds but again what amp fuse?

Thanks in advance!

Plug_Adapter.jpg

10-10-20 · 20-01-2024 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642794#Comment_121642794

Hi! As that power adapter is marked as "double isolated" (the square inside a square) It's fine to take off the two-pin plug and install a three-pin with a 5A fuse.

Is using 2 pin plugs in Ireland safe ?

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