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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Can I ask for evidence on motoring offence

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    I doubt the guard would even show in court.

    If they do show I'd let them say they seen you with the phone to your ear talking then show call records, receipts for car phone kit, etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    this is why it didn't stick

    The guard never turned up to court and it was thrown out in the day.

    Your assessment is pie in sky

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007




  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Rustyman101


    TBF the amount of people on actual phones and obviously texting, ie looking down into their laps in traffic.

    You would wonder why the need to make up charges !

    Not saying you were using your phone on the day.

    As another poster said maybe just checking you out and the phone was just a bye the way and the end.

    Probably here no more



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭JVince


    An awful lot of codswallop here.

    Gardai don't give tickets at the roadside

    Gardai don't "buckle" in court

    Garda ombudsman will file such rubbish under "bin"

    Garda WILL turn up in court unless he is out ill or a higher priority issue is pertinent.


    If the op is genuine and did not have his phone in his hand, then fight it. Solicitor not required. (They'll charge €100) Having Bluetooth and maybe usage logs may help, but it's how you present on the day.

    You might need to attend a preliminary hearing too.


    A letter to the superintendent might be an option if you really think the Garda was acting the pr1ck. And if it does go to court you can mention this too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 733 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    It happens, i also put my elbow on the door and rest my head in my hand.

    Got pulled over, told that I was getting a FCN for holding a phone. Only, and very luckily, that I was coming home from 5-a-side and my phone was in my gearbag in the boot.

    He only backed down when I actually showed him

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,980 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    If he had video evidence then our op is guilty but he said he isn't therefore no evidence is possible



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,413 ✭✭✭cml387


    Anyway, one could still be scrolling their Whatsapp messages or looking at Tik Tok videos. Call logs prove nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭csirl


    A letter to the Superintendent wont help you - they'll either ignore it or back the guard. Complaining to him would likely guarantee the guard will pursue it to court.

    GSOC complaint wont be concluded until after you District Court case - and the guards will push for the prosecution to "prove" they were right (GSOC outcome would be that you were ajudged to have done it in court - they cant challenge a judicial decision).

    As for evidence - District Court relies heavily on "sworn evidence" ......sure a guard would never lie in court.

    Unfortunately unless you have proof or other witnesses willing to give sworn evidence, there's very little you can do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭BagofWeed


    He has every right to do it and to show he is serious that the Garda is in fact a liar.

    If you have some loose dirt you need a brush ! Accumulated dirt is harder to get rid of.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Every car I've hired for the last decade or more has had Bluetooth yet you still see people holding their phone to their ear while driving or texting, watching movies or sport while driving. Again the offence is holding not using a phone, logs prove nothing.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    When it comes down to it, it will be up to the judge to decide between the credibility of the Garda's evidence versus that of the OP and playing these kind of silly "Sov Cit" games is exactly how to present yourself as bit of idiot and not credible in such situations, you just get lumped in with all the other nutters the judge hears from every other day. The OP needs to present the call logs showing he was not on the phone at the time, that is you challenge this kind of stuff, you leave up the the judge to decide if the Garda is a liar or not. Play silly games win silly prices as they say.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Where in the call logs will it show that someone was on Facebook?

    As already mentioned, the offence is to have the phone on your person. Whether it was in use is irrelevant. The Garda will just say that they believe they saw the OP holding their phone and that doesn't make them a liar no matter how much you tell yourself it does!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,156 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The Garda could have been mistasken, it happens, judges know this. It's definitely not a slam dunk for the prosecution. If there's doubt it's wrong to convict.



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Luna84


    I said it already in the thread the OP will just have to learn to sit normal in the car and not rest his head on his hand as this could happen again.

    Regarding on the phone or not and challenging it you do know some people would fight it and be adamant they were not on the phone even though they were so you are going up against those kinds of people regarding the judge hearing it all before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭GSBellew


    Happened to a friend of mine, driving an automatic car, resting their elbow on the armrest and head on their hand, points and a fine, they ended up just paying up, moving on and dropping the habit of resting their head on their hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,156 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Op same as you, " I know I wasn't on the phone but I do sit with my head propped up by my hand (especially in traffic). "

    The Garda is mistaken, op should fight it as that's what innocent people with a backbone do. Good solicitor, won't cost to much if you get one already active on the day.

    As for the 5k, I wish them the best of luck with that bull crap the next time.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It is quite possible that the Garda is mistaken as we all make mistakes but that still does not make them a liar as has been claimed a coupke of times in this thread.

    It has nothing to do with having a backbone. It is down to the liklihood of the judge believing the OP or a garda and the garda presumably has no reason to make up the charge so the OP has to prove that the garda is mistaken (and it is quite likley that, unlike a Hollywood movie, the OP won't get the chance to say anything of substance).



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭User1998


    Wouldn’t it be almost cheaper to just pay the fine rather than hiring a solicitor and going through all the hassle of court? If you can do it alone it could be worth it but surely the cost savings won’t be much with a solicitor involved



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Plus it is three points if you accept it and pay the fine but going to court is a gamble for an additional two points!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭square ball


    Is it possible to get a log showing data used at a particular time from your provider to accompany the call log showing you weren't on a call at the time of the alleged offence for if you do get a Fixed Charge Notice in the post.

    I have seen a number of people contest offences for using their mobile phone and most of the time they are lying so aren't successful. The Garda should have details of the interaction written in their notebook and their version is usually more believable.

    The judge will normally side with the Garda unless you can create doubt in his/her mind that the Garda was mistaken or is lying themselves.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is it possible to get a log showing data used at a particular time from your provider to accompany the call log showing you weren't on a call at the time of the alleged offence for if you do get a Fixed Charge Notice in the post.

    In short, no! The offence is to hold or support the phone on your body so there is no need to prove that the OP was using it, just that they were holding it. For the OP to go out and get any kind of call, text or data logs doesn't prove that they weren't holding the phone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭square ball


    I know what the offence is. My point is that the more evidence that OP can bring to court the more chance that they have an argument worth bringing before a judge. Very little chance of successfully challenging the charge with no evidence and just saying the Garda is lying.

    It does prove they weren't actively using the phone so can create doubt in the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Luna84


    I could be wrong but I do not think a lay person can get that kind of information. I'd even go as far as a solicitor would find it difficult to get it too.(not 100% on that) And as was said paying a solicitor and going to court hoping to win you are better off as another poster said about it happening someone else to just pay the fine and do not sit like that any more.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Very little chance of successfully challenging the charge with no evidence and just saying the Garda is lying.

    Claiming that the garda is lying will not end well for the OP!

    It does prove they weren't actively using the phone so can create doubt in the case.

    It proves absolutely nothing of the sort. Having call logs just shows that they did not make or receive a call or text. It does not prove that they weren't playing a game, choosing a music track or dry humping themselves to a photo of their mother - and the judge is well aware of this!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭Sarn


    If it was a case of the OP resting their head on their hand, then the details will be that he was holding the phone to his ear, speaking or listening (as that is what will have been seen). The absence of calls made or received will support this.

    Someone is hardly using Facebook, texting or watching a video with a phone pressed against the side of their head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭square ball


    3 penalty points could put OP off the road if they have 9 other points.

    More than likely they are better off taking the 3 points and paying the fine if they receive a Fixed Charge Notice but if they are telling the truth and didn't commit the offence why should they?



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Luna84


    This is the way of the world everything isn't all tea cups and roses.

    He can fight it all he wants and pay solicitor and day out in court but don't be surprised when it doesn't go his way.

    Also he is not the first to be blamed on using a phone and he will not be the last.



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭square ball


    You are right there is no way to prove they weren't using or holding the phone but generally people are scrolling (using data), texting or on a call when using the phone while driving.

    Showing they weren't actively doing any of the 3 most common things people do while using their phone will SUPPORT their claim that they are innocent of the alleged offence.

    If the person contesting the charge gathers all the evidence available to them to show their innocence it should give them more credibility in the judges eyes.



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