Can I ask for evidence on motoring offence

square ball · 20-01-2024 8:05pm

Is it possible to get a log showing data used at a particular time from your provider to accompany the call log showing you weren't on a call at the time of the alleged offence for if you do get a Fixed Charge Notice in the post.

I have seen a number of people contest offences for using their mobile phone and most of the time they are lying so aren't successful. The Garda should have details of the interaction written in their notebook and their version is usually more believable.

The judge will normally side with the Garda unless you can create doubt in his/her mind that the Garda was mistaken or is lying themselves.

Seth Brundle · 20-01-2024 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645067#Comment_121645067

Is it possible to get a log showing data used at a particular time from your provider to accompany the call log showing you weren't on a call at the time of the alleged offence for if you do get a Fixed Charge Notice in the post.

In short, no! The offence is to hold or support the phone on your body so there is no need to prove that the OP was using it, just that they were holding it. For the OP to go out and get any kind of call, text or data logs doesn't prove that they weren't holding the phone.

square ball · 20-01-2024 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645109#Comment_121645109

I know what the offence is. My point is that the more evidence that OP can bring to court the more chance that they have an argument worth bringing before a judge. Very little chance of successfully challenging the charge with no evidence and just saying the Garda is lying.

It does prove they weren't actively using the phone so can create doubt in the case.

Luna84 · 20-01-2024 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645164#Comment_121645164

I could be wrong but I do not think a lay person can get that kind of information. I'd even go as far as a solicitor would find it difficult to get it too.(not 100% on that) And as was said paying a solicitor and going to court hoping to win you are better off as another poster said about it happening someone else to just pay the fine and do not sit like that any more.

Seth Brundle · 20-01-2024 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645164#Comment_121645164

Very little chance of successfully challenging the charge with no evidence and just saying the Garda is lying.

Claiming that the garda is lying will not end well for the OP!

It does prove they weren't actively using the phone so can create doubt in the case.

It proves absolutely nothing of the sort. Having call logs just shows that they did not make or receive a call or text. It does not prove that they weren't playing a game, choosing a music track or dry humping themselves to a photo of their mother - and the judge is well aware of this!

Sarn · 20-01-2024 8:58pm

If it was a case of the OP resting their head on their hand, then the details will be that he was holding the phone to his ear, speaking or listening (as that is what will have been seen). The absence of calls made or received will support this.

Someone is hardly using Facebook, texting or watching a video with a phone pressed against the side of their head.

square ball · 20-01-2024 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645200#Comment_121645200

3 penalty points could put OP off the road if they have 9 other points.

More than likely they are better off taking the 3 points and paying the fine if they receive a Fixed Charge Notice but if they are telling the truth and didn't commit the offence why should they?

Luna84 · 20-01-2024 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645363#Comment_121645363

This is the way of the world everything isn't all tea cups and roses.

He can fight it all he wants and pay solicitor and day out in court but don't be surprised when it doesn't go his way.

Also he is not the first to be blamed on using a phone and he will not be the last.

square ball · 20-01-2024 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645264#Comment_121645264

You are right there is no way to prove they weren't using or holding the phone but generally people are scrolling (using data), texting or on a call when using the phone while driving.

Showing they weren't actively doing any of the 3 most common things people do while using their phone will SUPPORT their claim that they are innocent of the alleged offence.

If the person contesting the charge gathers all the evidence available to them to show their innocence it should give them more credibility in the judges eyes.

square ball · 20-01-2024 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645379#Comment_121645379

That is true it isn't. If OP is telling the truth they are more than entitled to contest the matter in court. They could end up with 5 penalty points and a bigger fine or they could be successful and get the charge struck out.

OP doesn't have to get a solicitor.

Luna84 · 20-01-2024 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645447#Comment_121645447

OP doesn't have to get a solicitor.

That would certainly help the case in the judges eyes. It's always lunatics who represent themselves in court.

drunkmonkey · 20-01-2024 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645396#Comment_121645396

The phone was probably using data in the background if apps weren't frozen. Car Kit, clean licence and call log creates an element of doubt. If the Garda has 0 evidence besides what he thinks he noticed it's not a very strong case.

Still unknown facts like how far the Garda was away and weather conditions. I'm assuming they were in slow moving traffic. Did OP note the time of the incident, does it match with Garda.

I'd definitely be defending this if I was wronged as a matter of principle so what if it costs more than the fine. Solicitor won't be that expensive.

square ball · 20-01-2024 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645467#Comment_121645467

Lunatics or people telling the truth!

But yeah a sizeable chunk of the lay litigants are lunatics.

drunkmonkey · 20-01-2024 9:44pm

Just on op's original question, can the solicitor request the book of evidence for a rta?

_Kaiser_ · 20-01-2024 9:53pm

So for the point of clarity.. if you have a phone in a dash cradle and use it for music/spotify and thus may tap/scroll on it to change tracks/playlists, is that an offence? If you're not actually holding it, is it permitted?

If it's not permitted, how is it any different than using one of the touchscreen ipads that poses as dashboard controls these days?

Seth Brundle · 20-01-2024 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645563#Comment_121645563

The phone offence related to holding it on your person. Playing with a mounted phone could lead to careless driving charge

20-01-2024 10:16pm

Why would you hold a phone to your ear if you were texting or playing a game.

Get a solicitor and barrister, request the gardas notes and statement.

Get your phone logs showing no usage.

When the garda is on the stand and has given his evidence get your barrister to get the garda to say you had the phone in your hand up to your ear. Then your barrister can inform the court you were

scratching your ear
touching your ear
resting your head and the garda is mistaken.

and here are his phone logs judge showing no usage.

If you lose the case you can appeal, ask for costs, do not accept guilt if you are not guilty.

Green Peter · 21-01-2024 7:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645678#Comment_121645678

A barrister is about €1500 a day and he will be employed by your solicitor which is about €300 - 500. An appeal is about another €500 to start with. The Garda may have had another Garda in the car with him or her who also witnessed the offence. Sometimes egos get the better of people and their cash.

dickdasr1234 · 21-01-2024 8:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645331#Comment_121645331

Neat observation! Renders most of this thread redundant.

Seth Brundle · 21-01-2024 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121646713#Comment_121646713

Indeed because the OP could not have been on a WhatsApp call (which wouldnt show in the call logs that the mobile phone providers appear to happily provide). Or a Facebook Messenger call. Or a call using the thousands of other apps that enable calls.