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Would a Dún Laoghaire to city commuter ferry make sense?

  • 21-01-2024 8:51am
    #1
    Bray Head
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 896 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Currently the best scheduled time the DART & Luas from DL to Point can achieve is 40 minutes, in practice closer to 50 minutes at peak time.


    Distance from the former ferry port in DL to the Point over sea is about 11km. Are modern hydrofoil ferries fast and reliable enough to compete with DART+Luas?


    I am curious as something similar is going to be launched from Belfast to Bangor later this year, see here.



Comments

  • #2
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Could they match the 10 min frequency of the Dart?



  • #3
    artanevilla
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Can people board/disembark the ferry as quickly as they can a DART or Luas? You've to factor that into your travel times.

    Weather also a much bigger factor.



  • #4
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Also, the Dart and busses stop along the way, making them attractive to an awful bigger cohort than any sort of ferry would.

    It could be an option as a tourist attraction, combined with a commuter solution for some, but I doubt it would “wash its face”, and would have to be subsidised substantially.

    Not sure there would be the appetite, given the excellent services already in place.



  • #5
    Yaretzi Attractive Cheek
    Posts: 0 ✭ Yaretzi Attractive Cheek


    There was one considered in Cork Harbour maybe 15 years ago, but various objections came in about potential issues with wash from a high speed ferry being problematic and it never went beyond the proposal.

    It would make a lot of sense in Cork given the scale of the harbour, and they’re common in places like Vancouver etc but their is Ireland, we can’t even do busses without every NIMBY blocking the routes.



  • #6
    Low Energy Eng
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭Low Energy Eng


    Also very popular in NSW Australia

    Good idea to do a few coastal stops



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  • #7
    Bray Head
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 896 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Thanks for all the replies.


    I guess my question is more about what is feasible - what would be the fastest time achievable for a state-of-the-art technology?


    As for boarding I've been on these ferries in Boston and NYC and found them pretty efficient.



  • #8
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    More useful would be a water taxi from Huston to the Point or places in between.

    A barrage or some such way of reducing the tidal flow upstream of the the point. It would be prudent to provide that anyway to counteract the higher tides expected as a consequence of climate change. Also required would be an increase in height of the sea wall all the way from DL to Howth.



  • #9
    neiljung
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭neiljung


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647137#Comment_121647137

    Planning Permission was received but didn't go ahead with teh recession. Developer appealed to extend the duration of the permission but it was refused.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #10
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647369#Comment_121647369

    I checked a route in Sydney for a comparison. The Manly to Circular Harbour ferry is 11km and takes 20minutes. You could probably expect something similar for DL to The Point.

    Dublin Bay gets pretty rough though! I'd rather take the Dart tbh.



  • #11
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,618 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650071#Comment_121650071

    Id love that but I’d say that wouldn’t be easy with all the low bridges and the Liffey I steel gets very shallow at low tide and in dry weather. Trying to run it consistently would be impossible



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  • #12
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,748 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121649993#Comment_121649993

    In Amsterdam they have ferries across the river/canal whatever it is and the turnaround time is about 5 mins, so that would need to be factored in. The other question I'd have is where in the City would it be docking? You'd want it to be somewhere close to Talbot Bridge/Butt Bridge to make it worthwhile.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #13
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656186#Comment_121656186

    The purpose of the barrage would be to reduce tidal flows upriver from the point. The barrage would only be open mid-tide, so limiting both high and low tides - by setting the open times of the barrage - depending on tidal prediction and river flow.

    The barrage would be part of an increased height for the sea wall from DL to Howth to protect against rising sea levels. This is required to protect Dublin as much is at risk of flooding.



  • #14
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ^^^ I suspect that such a barrage would not be an option as it would affect the Dublin bay SAC and SPA and may even have an impact on the overall structure of Bull Island.



  • #15
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Dublin Port is already very busy and not a lot of space for a ferry. The cruise ships are not allowed in any more.



  • #16
    sprucemoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647137#Comment_121647137

    Vancouver isnt the best comparison tbh though, the seabus route is about 2km and part of why it is so popular is due to the fact that there is basically one (very badly managed) bridge between the city centre and North Vancouver. The bridge in question was originally paid for by the Guinness family if anyone is looking for a gun fact.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #17
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656556#Comment_121656556

    The barrage would be placed at about the East Link Bridge, so not affecting shipping, or the Dublin Bay SAC.

    It might impact Bull Island which appeared as a result of the construction of the North Bull Wall which altered the flow of the Liffey as it joined the bay. The work scoured the river bed so that it no longer needed dredging. A barrage might well alter this, but that depends on the management of the barrage and water flows.



  • #18
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656767#Comment_121656767

    "Might well" would be sufficient to kill such a project under the EU's SPA Directive



  • #19
    Malcolm Enough Millipede
    Posts: 0 ✭ Malcolm Enough Millipede


    IMO it should be feasible, but of course subject to weather. Some days it might be merely uncomfortable, other days too hazardous to run, but some people are good on a boat and would enjoy the experience. I once had the pleasure of driving a fast boat from Dún Laoghaire to to Poolbeg, a very bouncy ride, but fast and fun.



  • #20
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657174#Comment_121657174

    It also 'might well' protect Dublin from rising sea levels. It would need a study to determine which.



  • #21
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There was a small boat offering a ferry service between south side of the East Link across to the north side, and up to Sam Beckett bridge about four years ago. They even took the Leap card!



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  • #22
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I think this is a great idea but again, I don't see Dublin Port Company supporting lots of additional ship movements in the narrow shipping lane. It's also a long way up from entrance to Eastlink, passing all the shipping berths. I just don't see how it could be logistically feasible without interfering with normal commercial operations.



  • #23
    Malcolm Enough Millipede
    Posts: 0 ✭ Malcolm Enough Millipede


    There’s a busy little yacht club and powerboat training centre in the docks area, operating right in the shipping lane. I trained in powerboat boating there negotiating around the big ships, it was good training in operating a boat in a high traffic environment. I can’t see why a ferry boat would add that much to the traffic.

    it would be a niche preference for pax, not everyone has the stomach for a choppy day in Dublin Bay, so I can’t see it being very economically viable as a commuter transport, but it could be done as an hourly service, with pax enjoying the sea air for a change to being land based. A tourist attraction too. Maybe reduced rates for regulars who might like to use it for commuting, eg 5 journeys for price of 3-4

    Cork Harbour would be much more commuter friendly, being relatively enclosed, less subject to weather. I’m surprised there isn’t even a tourist boat doing a lunch or dinner cruise of the harbour.



  • #24
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    The yachts are not allowed in the shipping lanes and must stay to RHS of the lane exiting, LHS emtering. Dublin Port is planning to redevelop Poolbe Peninsula to increase capacity. Part of this involves moving the yacht club.

    https://www.dublinport.ie/dublin-port-launches-3fm-project-poolbeg-peninsula/

    I think a passenger ferry Ito heart of Dublin City would be cool. Dublin bay can be quite choppy even on a summers day.



  • #25
    spillit67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Works well in Boston. Even areas with Commuter Rail lined up has them and they do well enough.

    Having a bar can prove popular with commuters.



  • #26
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,804 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Its a roughly 6nm journey, but at least 4nm of that journey would be in the Port's channel where speed limits are enforced.

    The journey itself in the river from Poolbeg lighthouse to the East Link Bridge is 3nm, but there is a speed limit of 9kts from the Poolbeg lighthouse as far as the Port VTS station (control tower) which is a distance of about 2nm, and from the VTS station up as far as the East Link Bridge (about 1nm) the speed limit is 6kts.

    So just in the river itself, it will take about 23 minutes to get from the Poolbeg Lighthouse to the East Link Bridge if speed limits are being obeyed.

    The only place where you could make good way would be from the mouth of Dunn Laoghaire Harbour to the Port channel, which is about 3.3nm, so if you could achieve 25kts on that crossing, you could make it to the Poolbeg lighthouse in about 8 minutes...

    Assume about 5 minutes in Dun Laoghaire from cast off to getting to the mouth of the harbour and you are looking at an overall journey time of 36 minutes in an absolutely ideal scenario..... but in reality it would be closer to 45-50 minutes even on good days, and any passengers will lose a few minutes at either end also as ropes are being tied/untied...

    Post edited by AndyBoBandy on


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