Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Options
1…991992994996997…1190

Comments

  • Options
    #29792
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121646829#Comment_121646829

    I think Earls' off field presence was definitely a factor but it only became relevant cause it was an otherwise marginal decision. Had there been a standout back 3 player competing in good form it's a very different calculation.

    I wouldn't read too much into that decision.



  • Options
    #29793
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't see how you can leave McCarthy and Baird out of the 23. Been two of the best players in the country so far this season.



  • Options
    #29794
    Must love hardship
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647695#Comment_121647695

    In a game of fine margins Ireland went Into the Nz Quarter finals with injury doubts hanging over both wingers.

    Hansen clearly wasn't right and had to go off injured after 55 minutes and Lowe didn't play for 3 months after the world cup.

    Earls could only manage 60 minutes in the whole world cup and was injured for the rest of it after being injured for half the previous season. He had minimal form to go on.

    Getting Earls to 100 caps was the right call. Bringing Earls to the world cup over Nash who had been in great form was the wrong option. Same goes for naming Kilkoyne in the original squad.



  • Options
    #29795
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Personally I do not think there is real 100% guarantee that POM, as team captain, actually has to start games. I think Farrell is pragmatic enough to play the best 15/23 to suit the game, and if POM isn't in that plan, so be it.

    That being said, I haven't seen anything from POM in the last 12 months to suggest he's not good enough to start against France.



  • Options
    #29796
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648421#Comment_121648421

    I don’t think Nash was even close. Be it that that may have been the wrong call. I think it was there for Stockdale to take the last place and he didn’t.

    I'd agree it was the wrong call for what it’s worth.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #29797
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648549#Comment_121648549

    POM is good enough to start against France but there's a question mark over his ability to finish and if you have to dedicate a bench spot to his replacement it affects the whole squad.



  • Options
    #29798
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648836#Comment_121648836

    We will always have a back row replacement on the bench.



  • Options
    #29799
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648360#Comment_121648360

    Ryan has been playing exceptional. Just people are so used to it



  • Options
    #29800
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648421#Comment_121648421

    Lowe didn't play for personal reasons.



  • Options
    #29801
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648850#Comment_121648850

    Yeah, but if he's a dedicated BS replacement or VDF/Doris gets injured then we have to shuffle players about and POM has to go 80.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #29802
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ??

    No matter who we have on the bench, they cover usually, 2 positions, it very frequently requires a back row rearrangement. Nothing at all new here.

    Hell if we have Henderson or Beirne on the field, or bench, we have decent six cover already.

    Playing POM absolutely does not mean we need dedicated blind side cover on the bench.

    I can't even think of any dedicated 6 we have in the squad as it is.



  • Options
    #29803
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    If POM can play 80 minutes, there's no issue. We've been managing the bench fine for years.

    If he can't then he needs a dedicated replacement (like the front rows, 9 and 10).

    He's played 2/10 full games this season and 6/24 last season and is coming back from injury.

    Back rows, second rows, centres and back 3 players are supposed to be able to play the full game, so don't have a like for like replacement. The 3 non-specific bench players can cover whichever lock, back row or centre/wing/FB gets injured or gassed.

    Covering a planned, fatigue-related replacement and I just cover for the back row needs an extra forward on the bench.



  • Options
    #29804
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It’s not exactly unusual POM would need to be replaced. He was normally the back row to make way wasn’t he?

    The only real impact is that it favours Conan over Baird on the bench.



  • Options
    #29805
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    And again, should we have Beirne or Henderson on the pitch already, it reduces the requirement to have any dedicated six in the bench, not that we ever had one on the bench anyway



  • Options
    #29806
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647695#Comment_121647695

    Earl's decision makes sense in hindsight now due AF's plan to basically disregard the idea of rotation and run the starters into the ground.

    It doesn't matter if Earls was at high risk to not be available if the plan was never to spread the workload across the squad.



  • Options
    #29807
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650626#Comment_121650626

    Ah I dunno. I suspect he was going to change things a bit more. I think Conan's injury/relapse really put him in a hole in the backrow.

    Ultimately stockdale wasn't much better than earls if at all.



  • Options
    #29808
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650717#Comment_121650717

    Conan was injured when the squad was named. He shouldn't have brought an injured player to the World Cup.



  • Options
    #29809
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650717#Comment_121650717

    Maybe you're right but I dont see any evidence of that.

    He'd plenty of opportunities to play others in the squad to rest the front line and he didn't. When you then look at the 'vibes' selection of Earls it ties into him not planning to use him heavily - surely he'd bring the more durable player in that scenario



  • Options
    #29810
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648360#Comment_121648360

    Without question!



  • Options
    #29811
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648360#Comment_121648360

    I agree with this but Farrell is very consistent in his selections and I do not see how both can make the 23 after POM has been named as captain. There will almost certainly be 7 players (5 starters + 2 subs) in the matchday squad who cover the back 5 of the scrum.

    POM is a locked in as captain, VDF is locked in as the only openside in the squad, Doris is locked in as he's Doris, Ryan and Beirne are locked in because they have been Farrell's pairing for years and both are playing well.

    That leaves 2 from Conan, Henderson, Beirne and McCarthy to be selected. Henderson started the QF against NZ and he had an excellent RWC. I'm not really convinced Farrell cares about provincial form. Conan's place might be vulnerable as he's not as established as the rest, but assuming everyone is fit I do not see any realistic prospect of both McCarthy and Baird making the 23. Who does he leave out? And we're talking here about what Farrell will likely do, not what we'd do.


    And for the record, Farrell has the overwhelming benefit of the doubt at the moment imo.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #29812
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650800#Comment_121650800

    He had a setback after the squad was announced.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650814#Comment_121650814

    I mean the alternative was an out of form Stockdale. Yes he deliberately played the frontline more than was to be expected but ultimately it made no difference. Hansen got injured in a game he would have been playing anyway, not against Tonga or Romania.

    I don’t think it tells us he cares more about what a player brings off field. The on field options were just meh.



  • Options
    #29813
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651171#Comment_121651171

    Earls was a 35 year old winger who couldn't stay fit and total minutes the previous calendar year summed to less than 6 matches. For a squad player that you intend to use only against some of the poorer sides, one of the top things you need is their availability and Earls showed he was a complete liability in that regard and it came to pass during the tournament. If they wanted him there for 'vibes' they could have brought him as backroom staff.

    Disagree on the rest making no difference.

    We lost the QF by the tiniest of margins with a team that looked completely out on their feet towards the end of the match. My feeling is they wouldn't have been quite as tired if we'd rotated more earlier in the tournament.

    We'll never know if it would have made a difference but Ireland were an outlier in the minutes used of their starters by the teams that made it to the semis, everyone else rotated far more than us.



  • Options
    #29814
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They were an outlier but it was both a deliberate choice and I think not that big a deal. If anything sexton is to blame with his ban - we played our first team less in the warmups.

    But the most important players had 50-60 min if rugby in a 3 week period. I just don't think it was an issue, but we can go round in circles on this.



  • Options
    #29815
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638147#Comment_121638147

    Ireland are a better team than South Africa.

    This is a take



  • Options
    #29816
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652173#Comment_121652173

    Are you going to answer my question?



  • Options
    #29817
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638147#Comment_121638147

    South africa have tougher fixture list every year than us tbh so is it a surprise theyve a worse rrcord than us and id take their record in world cup and if we dont have the ability to do better to overcome attrition of a world cup then we need to totally change things up.



  • Options
    #29818
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652594#Comment_121652594

    I'd have agreed with you maybe up until the last World Cup. But since 2019 SA have mostly played Foster's pre-Schmidt All Blacks, and a Wallabies side in serious decline. Throw in at least two tests against Argentina and an EOYT where they can play the likes of Wales, Scotland and Italy, I'd say our schedules have been comparable.

    In World Cups they definitely have the horses, and really do seem to build to peak in that tournament. But would Irish fans be happy with a single Six Nations in the last ten years?

    Human nature to want what you never had, and it's all well and good to prioritize the RWC, but I do wonder how quickly fans would turn on an Irish Head Coach if he all but sacrificed the 6N each year to do it...?



  • Options
    #29819
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653915#Comment_121653915

    You don't need to sacrifice the 6Ns but you certainly should be more experimental during the "friendlies", if for nothing else it gets more guys in camp and into the system so that there isn't a huge learning curve if they're ever required because of injuries.



  • Options
    #29820
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653961#Comment_121653961

    Well just to clarify, I'm talking about a (wildly hypothetical) scenario where we try replicate SA's more direct (brutish) game with a view to keeping performances more consistent in the highly attritional RWC context.

    Aside from this hypothetical scenario being practically impossible for genetic reasons, it would come at a cost. Yes, power and size will get you deep in tournaments, as other teams fatigue and lose their precision a small bit. It's why NZ struggled to win it for so many years, usually with the tournament going to SA or England.

    But the limited gameplan will cost you games outside of the RWC pressure cooker, when opposition will be fresher and able to play better rugby. I'm just wondering how long Irish fans would tolerate that. My hunch is they wouldn't.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #29821
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653961#Comment_121653961

    Farrell was largely experimental in the "friendlies", and I'd expect him to do similar over the next 12 months. As the RWC got closer, he naturally settled on a squad and the era for experimentation was over.

    But from his first games in Feb 2020 through to the RWC, he gave debuts to all of:

    Caelan Doris, Ronan Kelleher, Max Deegan, Hugo Keenan, Will Connors, Ed Byrne, Jamison Gibson Park, James Lowe, Billy Burns, Shane Daly, Eric O'Sullivan, Ryan Baird, Craig Casey, Gavin Coombes, Rob Baloucoune, James Hume, Tom O'Toole, Nick Timoney, Paul Boyle, Fineen Wycherley, Caolin Blade, Dan Sheehan, Mack Hansen, Michael Lowry, Jimmy O'Brien, Jeremy Loughman, Jack Crowley, Cian Prendergast and Joe McCarthy.

    That's 30 players. Of that group, 8 went on to amass over 20 caps, and 14 went to the RWC. We only have c. 160 or so pro players in the whole country, so I don't know how there's a credible argument that he wasn't experimental.



Advertisement