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No more parking spaces!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Maybe because one of them contributes directly to 1300 premature deaths from air pollution, another few hundred deaths on the roads and costs billions in wasted time for commercial goods stuck in traffic?

    If you want a car space buy or rent one what's the big deal



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,970 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I've stayed in friends apartments and Airbnbs in various parts of Europe and the US.

    Storage was provided in most of them, often a locked room in the basement sometimes called a cave.

    Room for bikes, furniture not in use, car winter tyres and wheels etc.

    Generally the type of stuff you put in a garden shed.

    In addition often the parking garages are not exclusively for cars.

    I've seen bicycles, kids prams, kayaks, boats on trailers and odds and ends of furniture etc.

    Anyone I ever spoke to about these arrangements said that they enhanced their lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Yawn. I already did, and if I ever moved I would not consider any home for purchase that did not have its own private driveway and gates. That would be a deal breaker for me.

    I have no problem paying extra for a home with parking. I wouldn't even consider looking at one that didn't offer it at all.

    This is about removing or making the option of car ownership as difficult or even impossible for NEW housing developments, for many who may have a genuine need of a car - not about your lofty ambitions for saving lives from air pollution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you not see the obvious connection between and I'll use your exaggerated words here, removing or making the option of car ownership as difficult or even impossible for NEW housing developments, and saving lives from air pollution?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Frankly, I'm more concerned with people being able to live in homes that meet their daily needs, and the needs of their families, and if that doesn't involve driving, great. But if it does, they shouldn't be punished for it.

    I know young people who've bought homes as far away as Sligo, Cavan, Louth and Offaly as it was all they could afford, and they are commuting to Dublin every day or several days a week for work. Can't do that on a bike, and their commutes are so long they are too exhausted to do much at the weekend. I wonder what the stress and long term effects of living that way will do and what toll it will take to their lifespans. It's not a great way to live.

    Everyone living in "15 minute cities" is a pipe dream.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    15 minute cities and cargo bikes* for all!

    *Just nowhere to park them of an evening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Think you missed the part about where this applies. This is exactly what it's intended to avoid. No one off house in Sligo isn't going to be banned from having a car space. An apartment on Stephens green might though



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Tork


    It's laughable that the comment "you choose to live...." is being thrown around here. Most of us end up where we are because of our jobs, because of our relationships or what we could afford. It's often a combination of all three. So even though all of us have a certain amount of choice when it comes to where we live, there are compromises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Well, it wasn't a one-off house in Sligo. They have housing estates outside of Dublin too.

    And Dublin is a lot bigger than the city centre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Well your example specifically mentioned having to cycle from Sligo to Dublin for work which is just nonsense. More space for houses and cheaper houses in Dublin that are easier and quicker to get to/from is the aim. Are you against that?

    Most people~80% in the city core don't own cars why should they have to pay for carparks they don't need. If they want one there are lots of carparks that are empty all night that I'm sure would welcome the business opportunity of overnight parking for residents.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Stop being disingenuous. Of course cycling from Sligo to Dublin for work is not possible, and I never suggested it was. And those who were priced out of Dublin, weren't priced out of it because of the cost of a parking space.

    In case you didn't know, most of Dublin's 1.5 million population don't live in city centre apartments. They live in the suburbs.

    I have no problem with more housing developments being built in Dublin, but not those planned without space allowed for car parking facilities based on some vague promise that the Councils will ensure there will be enough Go Cars to go around if you do need one!

    As far as I'm concerned, that is a fool's notion. End of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    And what about the following day? I don't know but I'm thinking this discussion is following the same well worn path of other similar discussions where you can only be located on the extreme end of the spectrum. Surely a reasonable position is somewhere in the middle? Future city centre developments will have less dedicated parking but that doesn't automatically mean it should have none.

    Who knows, just like the evolution of cars, cargo bikes will only get bigger so will require more parking space and who knows some egregious households may have the gaul to want to own 2 cargo bikes and where the he'll will they be able to park them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's funny to see the tactic of weaponising sustainable transport in arguments designed to block sustainable transport, like all those people who develop a very sudden interest in emissions when it comes to Bus Connects here or LTNs in the UK.

    It's possible to be concerned about more than one thing at the same time. Yes, our housing crisis is absolutely a very serious issue impacting quality of life for many people, often condemning them to long car commutes and car-bound lifestyles. Ironically, the ability to deliver MORE housing units which reducing parking minimums supports is one partial solution to this, but you're opposing it.

    It's also funny to see how 'everyone' is so often brought into these arguments. There is no proposal to remove parking for everyone or put everyone into 15 minute cities. That's a pure strawman.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    I remember pre-car the missus and I walking all the way to our local Tesco (pre-online shopping times). I'd have a backpack and carry two additional bags, one in each hand, herself the same. That's how we did the shopping and we couldn't take everything we needed as we were limited by what we could carry.

    Then I remember our first car, a 99 reg metallic blue Micra and taking that to Tesco. We could take with us more than we could carry. That was amazing, to actually be able to do a full shop.

    I recall the time we discovered our daughter was allergic to walnuts. She was going into shock so we bundled her into the car and drove to the hospital where she was seen to immediately. They told us we had been better bringing her in ourselves as an ambulance would have taken too long.

    At least twice a month I try and take my daughter to see either her Aunty or grandparents, who live in Kildare. If we were to do that by public transport it'd be: a 40 min walk to the train station, 45 mins in on the train to the city and then 50 mins on the bus. So we'd spend 2h and 05min going one way, coming back the same so we'd spend 4h and 10min travelling. Going by car it's 40 minutes each way.

    I can't see myself not wanting and needing a car any time soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Just ICYMI, no one is coming to take your car away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,040 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    I remember pre-car the missus and I walking all the way to our local Tesco (pre-online shopping times). I'd have a backpack and carry two additional bags, one in each hand, herself the same. That's how we did the shopping and we couldn't take everything we needed as we were limited by what we could carry.

    Those were the days!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    I didn't think they were. I was just giving you my two cents as to why I wouldn't do without a car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Shall I give you my two cents as to why I wouldn't do without an air fryer? It's about as relevant to this discussion about a new planning guideline as your two cents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    I'm not sure we've ever had a discussion before Andrew and I have just given my two cents as to why, for a lot of people, this new planning guideline doesn't make a lot of sense. I have been unbiased and factual but it's clear from reading over this thread that you are clearly anti-car and that's fine, that's your right. It strikes me that you are being rather obtuse when it's laid out to you why so many people, including myself, don't agree with these new guidelines and don't wish to see this become the norm.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Tork


    Why do you keep saying this? Or that nobody is going to come and take our parking spaces away. I haven't seen anybody making that point only you. Everybody knows what they're debating here and it isn't that. It's time to stop using this particular straw man. Besides, most people here have already bought their homes and aren't going to be affected by these regulations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    I think it might be just a type of passive aggressive characteristic that seems to be deployed without exception to the topic of discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,965 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    That's my point though, there's no proposal for it to become the norm. It is a specific guideline for specific circumstances, which makes perfect sense for those circumstances.

    Almost all the arguments against the guideline are based on the assumption that it is going to be applied broadly, way outside of those specific circumstances.

    'Anti-car' is a bit of a simplification. I own a car and drive a car. I'm not anti-car. I'm anti planning our cities largely around the desires of car owners and to hell with everyone else.

    I keep saying it because almost all the arguments against the proposal are based on the premise that the guidelines will apply to the individual arguing, when, as you say, most people here aren't going to be affected in the slightest - but seem hugely affronted by the idea that parts of the city where they're never going to live might not be built around their personal desires.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Its funny but this seems like the perfect use case for car sharing to me. The shopping could easily be done by online shopping.

    The two trips a month could be replaced by a car share for a few hours. Its the exact use case I have myself. But GoCar needs to get cheaper for people like you to consider switching. I pay about 40 euro a trip to visit the inlaws. Which is what insurance and tax on my car was.

    But I also understand why people are reluctant to give up the convenience of a car outside their door.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Tork


    I keep saying it because almost all the arguments against the proposal are based on the premise that the guidelines will apply to the individual arguing, when, as you say, most people here aren't going to be affected in the slightest - but seem hugely affronted by the idea that parts of the city where they're never going to live might not be built around their personal desires.

    It's not going to affect you either, yet you continue to contribute to the thread.

    Again I come back to this choice/personal desires thing. People end up living where they do for all sorts of reasons and many of them are external. Jobs, relationships, finances mainly. I'm sure there are lots of people stuck in estates in Westmeath who would gladly move into the Dublin commuter belt and get rid of the car if they could. This is the real world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    It's not unreasonable to explain one's own use of a car as it's highly likely that others will meet a partner, have children and require a car for similar uses. Even those without a partner or children still need to shop, get to and from work and visit family and friends. Buying alone now means that you're buying in cheaper areas without reliable, or even existing, public transport. As was explained, even when public transport is available it can require going all around the houses and add hours to a journey.

    Dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you by declaring their point is irrelevant is just plain rude and incorrect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    You seem to have ignored the emergency trip to A & E.

    Add in all the extra time getting to and from the collection point for a hire/shared car and it becomes less practical. Unless these hired cars are going to be on our doorsteps?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I keep saying it because almost all the arguments against the proposal are based on the premise that the guidelines will apply to the individual arguing, when, as you say, most people here aren't going to be affected in the slightest - but seem hugely affronted by the idea that parts of the city where they're never going to live might not be built around their personal desires.

    As with your claim of being able to care about more than one thing at once, we who already own homes can be concerned for our friends, families and particularly our adult children, who are from Dublin but are being priced out of buying homes here. Again, it's not the added cost of a parking bay that is pricing them out of Dublin and into other counties and long commutes.

    It is a specific guideline for specific circumstances, which makes perfect sense for those circumstances.

    Only those circumstances are a pipe dream.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Hired cars and car shares are different for me. I have three car shares with 5 minutes walk of my house. That is obviously the goal with these parking restricted new developments. I can log onto the app and pick the car I want depending on what's closest/available/size of the car i need. Below shows the amount that are available in Eindhoven. I know this is better than what's currently in Ireland but 2 years ago this map looked a lot more empty. This is also only one of the companies that operate in Eindhoven so doesn't even show all the cars available.

    I expect people will say that this isn't possible in Ireland. But if housing developments reduce parking then people will need alternatives. It will be viable for car shares to invest in their fleets as their user base grows.

    This isn't viable for everyone, if my child had nut allergies or other medical issues then I would 100% have a car outside the door. If I needed to travel to work I would have a car.

    Weekends away require a bit more planning as I need to travel to the car rental desk at the airport.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




This discussion has been closed.
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