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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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    #21902
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644163#Comment_121644163

    I'd imagine that reits would have to sell with tenants in situ, therfore buying does nothing for homeless



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    #21903
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644163#Comment_121644163

    Which further inflates prices and increases the growing homeless population.



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    #21904
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644163#Comment_121644163

    Or the govt could just invest or build its own social housing and leave the private market alone.

    Novel idea, I know...



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    #21905
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644163#Comment_121644163

    The govt should be providing affordable and cost rental homes.

    Not just social housing for those on no and low incomes.

    There are plenty of folks in the squeezed middle category that are invisble homeless.

    Still living with parents or renting a room into their 40s because they cant afford private rents but dont qualify for social housing as they earn too much.

    And people wonder why we cant keep irish teachers and nurses in Dublin.

    If the govt are going to purchase or rent homes from private developers, they should be providing for this market as a priority.



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    #21906
    Ozark707
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644358#Comment_121644358

    There was a cost rental planned for D4 (something like 65 units were planned) but now is given over to asylum seekers. The pressures on the system are immense. They can't keep up at the moment.



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    #21907
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644389#Comment_121644389

    Which one was that do you know?



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    #21908
    herbalplants
    Registered Users Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644331#Comment_121644331

    Exactly I don't quite get why government is not building their own social housing.

    The same about GP medical cards. Why doesn't the state build their own state clinic, employ doctors pay them a fixed salary for people on medical card. Why do they spend a fortune paying GPs, sure must work out more expensive for the state.

    Living the life



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    #21909
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Blut2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644076#Comment_121644076

    Its utterly insane when you think about it. For home buyers and renters competing with the government obviously, but most of all for tax payers.

    How many tens of billions will have been wasted on things like HAP, long term leasing of high end apartment blocks en masse, and FTB schemes over a decade+? Instead of just actually building houses the way the state did for decades.

    Its gross financial mismanagement, likely with a final bill on the scale of the banking guarantee in 2008.



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    #21910
    Ozark707
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644417#Comment_121644417


    The Victorian building off Clyde Road and adjacent to Herbert Park was used as a nursing home up to 2020. It had until recently been owned by Richmond Homes which put the property on the market for €7 million in September, just months after securing planning permission for a controversial 64-unit Build-to-Rent (BTR) scheme.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/01/03/former-ballsbridge-nursing-home-to-accommodate-220-asylum-seekers/



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    #21911
    combat14
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭combat14


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643753#Comment_121643753

    the reits are struggling because historically low interest rates have gone up and they werent fully prepared for it

    rates will come down later this year and reits will be grand again

    as for house prices how much higher do the reits think they can sustainably go....



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    #21912
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121645219#Comment_121645219

    Ahh yes. I hadnt realised it had permission for BTR. I thought it was just laying idle withno plans to develop.

    It has gone to asylum seekers, but yes, in that location BTR woukd make much more sense, considering its in a major employment centre.



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    #21913
    combat14
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭combat14


    its pretty clear those government supports are propping up the property bubble - without the "supports" many would not be able to buy which says it all


    https://www.thejournal.ie/readers-stories-government-housing-schemes-6266720-Jan2024/




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    #21914
    Cristianc
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Cristianc


    There is something very interesting happening. In Dublin, the number of houses for sale has reduced to half compared to last year but the number of rents (including rooms) is now double. Layoffs effect maybe? People leaving Dublin?



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    #21915
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647435#Comment_121647435

    May be a bit of rebalancing going on

    Alot of layoffs announced last year affecting Dublin mainly I. T while every major employer here in Limerick is recruiting mainly med tech, pharmacy, semi conductors, while eli lily starts production this year and is it verizon that's bringing 400 jobs to that new office building on Henry street.

    Rentals are like hens teeth and the few new builds are predominantly purchased by the state

    All investment that was well flagged in advance with little or nothing done to increase housing supply for the extra workers needed



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    #21916
    lordleitrim
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭lordleitrim


    Loads of new apartment schemes have been completed in the last 12 months in Dublin...maybe it's finally contributing to more availability.



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    #21917
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,847 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Something to note is that a BTR apartment scheme of ~200 apartments will probably have five (or less) apartment types and hence five (max) Daft listings. These will persist until the scheme is fully rented; if not forever due to turnover.



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    #21918
    BtxKiddo
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭BtxKiddo


    Would you guys recommend First Home Scheme to a couple in their 30’s that otherwise won’t have a chance to buy without using this scheme?

    anyone that bought recently using this scheme?

    thank you



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    #21919
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,577 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651215#Comment_121651215

    Anything is better than renting. If that is the only option then they should probably chance it.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #21920
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651215#Comment_121651215

    In a normal market you wouldn't touch with a barge pole as it brings forward demand and once it's satisfied price will fall as there is no further demand unless we go 50% shared ownership.

    However we are not in a normal market and if I were you I'd be very tempted to pull the trigger as the minister was warned from every independent voice of the high risks of this scheme. If such a scheme failed there would be a strong argument from participants that the Scheme was flawed and forced upon them by a government that were advised against it.

    As with every construction industry failure the negative effects will then be laid on the backs of the taxpayer



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    #21921
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651215#Comment_121651215

    We'll all be paying through the nose for this scheme, if you qualify to take advantage of it you might as well get some benefit from it.



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    #21922
    J_1980
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭J_1980


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653414#Comment_121653414

    What exactly are the tax payers paying through the nose on this scheme? Much better deal for society than social housing.



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    #21923
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    More sauce

    The Cabinet will consider a new initiative which would enable medical card holders to avail of income through the "rent a room scheme" - without any impact on their eligibility for the card.


    Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly is seeking ministerial approval for the plan which provides a disregard for rental income of up to €14,000 a year from medical card assessment

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0123/1428068-cabinet-ireland/




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    #21924
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657659#Comment_121657659

    Whatever about the benefits for individuals who qualify today, it's emphatically not a much better deal for society as a whole.

    It's simply designed to circumvent the CB lending rules, and as such will have two effects - push up prices and bring forward demand. Exactly the same effects as when the Celtic Tiger banks got carefree with their lending. And we've seen what happens when that carefree lending gets withdrawn.

    So the taxpayer will ultimately have 100s of millions in equity stakes in private housing. Money that could have been spent elsewhere.

    The only way this can be spun as a positive for taxpayers as a whole is if house prices keep on rising, and there is a profitable return on the disposal of those stakes.

    But if the effect of the policy is to push prices higher and bring forward demand, it takes ever larger inputs of capital from the state to keep the merry-go-round going. The larger these inputs of capital become the more obvious the burden on other competing services becomes.

    With a strong economy and favourable public opinion this can be kept going for a while, but the longer it goes on the bigger the problem the government is creating for itself and society as a whole. The longer it goes on the more money required to keep it going and maintain the value of the previous spend, but simultaneously the longer it goes on the bigger the impact and loss to the taxpayer will be if they withdraw the scheme.

    Essentially in the long term there are only two possible outcomes to this - ever increasing house prices supported by ever increasing sums of taxpayers money, or the loss of 100s of millions in taxpayers money due to writing off the equity stakes owned by the taxpayer.

    Neither is an ideal scenario for society as a whole. Either way we'll be paying through the nose for it.



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    #21925
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658330#Comment_121658330

    Can you imagine paying rent out of income that may be taxed at 50% plus to a landlord with state subsidised A rated housing paid for by tenants taxes.

    The landlord pays no tax and rental income does not affect their medical card while the tenants health insurance is sky rocketing.

    What are we teaching our youth. I've said it so many times but we are an ongoing experiment in reverse evolution

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #21926
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Blut2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658504#Comment_121658504

    Its going to create some morally terrible scenarios. Someone living in social housing, on welfare/public pension, with a medial card, renting out their room to a young person on a low enough salary.

    The 'landlord' will be getting circa 1000e a month tax free from welfare, plus say 1000e tax free from renting the room if its in Dublin, plus the free medical care - worth say 100e a month. Thats 2100e net.

    If the worker is earning 45k or less a year they'll come out with less than that per month in disposable income (45k p.a. gives a net income of 3k p/m, minus the 1k rent..). As their reward for working 40 hours a week, while their landlord sits at home doing nothing.

    All because the government is now absolutely desperate to get any room in the country rented, at any cost.



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    #21927
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658810#Comment_121658810

    Can that actually happen? I really hope it cant.

    I see a few of these popping up the last few months.

    https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-the-apartment-castleview-drive-swords-co-dublin/5557204




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    #21928
    J_1980
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭J_1980


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658504#Comment_121658504

    The young are voting for left parties, so they are happy with it and want more of this.



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    #21929
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Blut2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658839#Comment_121658839

    Yes. That exact scenario is what the government is hoping to have happen - thats why they've made it so renting out a room doesn't effect either your medical card or means tested welfare entitlements, recently. Because of the desperation to find new rooms anywhere, at any cost. Because not enough were built over the last 10 years...



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    #21930
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,691 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658997#Comment_121658997

    This.

    Ireland has consistently voted in parties of neo-liberals, lefties and (in some cases) out right communists and done nothing when they inevitably behave in appalling ways. After decades of this, the civil service and state bureaucracy itself is riddled with such people to the point that if, hypothetically, a centrist or even moderately right-leaning party were to be elected, it would cause near psychotic meltdowns.

    Honestly, I think modern Ireland is what happens when a society has lived on easy-mode for such a long time. Unfortunately, things are starting to change, and the realities of living on a finite planet are starting to bite.

    Anyways, never let it be said that turkeys don't vote for Christmas.



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    #21931
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658997#Comment_121658997

    I don't know anyone that calls themselves left or right. Most just work away and wonder despite their best efforts the basics of life get further away from being achieved.

    Most people understand that for average/median workers, current housing policy is at fault for that so they want them out.

    It's not a left or right thing. It's common sense and there is none in the current government



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