organic farming

I am not really about that after the conversion you are more or less paid 100/ acre after conversion. For a sixty acre farm that is 6K.

Your out put will probably drop 20-40%, you will have extra ration and straw costs. Organic rations are twice the price of standard ones. Straw was uneconomical at 15-20/ bale, at 50+ I just cannot see the sums adding up.

The only plus is the ability to take in slurry but you would want to be in a strong dairy area with plenty of lads In derogation

If you are a hill farmer with a couple hundred acres where you can draw the 70HA ( 175 acre) then it makes sense on a 40-60 acre farm I am not sure.

I am not sure what the implications of rented land are

It can be about a system that suits the person. Really found my niche there, at a personal level. Finished organic cattle are at €6/kg ATM, that may not last. You hardly see the vet. I use mob grazing, another guy is talking of outwintering, to each his own, but we can all still learn something from each other.

How do you hardly see the vet? What change did you make to reduce vet costs?

I am in first year Conversion and have treated as I always done under vet supervision.

Maybe a difference for me was I never treated cows or 2yr olds for parasites like fluke or stomach so no faecel change for me.

But I had to treat for hoose based on visibile symptoms (this is detailed in my heard plan and the product was purchased in the vet). Same for lice.

The one thing I did reduce/eliminate was the “just in case shot” for antibiotics but that was t that often in any case.

The stock are under less pressure. Maybe it's me, but I think that helps with TB as well. Their immunity seems to be higher. I also have over 40 days growth in front of stock, with the mob grazing. Lots of various plants and seeds in the diet. I notice red sorrel is their first choice.

Finances aside, here are some reasons that someone might switch to organic beef (copied), might be worth considering for some:

**Environmental benefits:**

* **Improved soil health:** Organic farming practices, such as crop rotation and compost application, help to improve soil health by increasing soil organic matter, which in turn improves soil structure, nutrient retention, and water infiltration. This can lead to increased crop yields and reduced reliance on synthetic fertilizers.

* **Reduced pollution:** Organic farming prohibits the use of synthetic pesticides and herbicides, which can harm beneficial insects, pollute water sources, and pose potential health risks to consumers. This can lead to cleaner water and air and a healthier environment for everyone.

* **Enhanced biodiversity:** Organic farming practices, such as avoiding monoculture and maintaining hedgerows, help to promote biodiversity by providing habitat for a variety of plant and animal species. This can help to maintain ecological balance and resilience in the face of climate change and other environmental challenges.

**Animal welfare benefits:**

* **Natural diet:** Organic cattle are fed a diet of grass and other forages, which is closer to their natural diet than the grain-based diet fed to most commercial cattle. This can improve their overall health and well-being.

* **Outdoor access:** Organic cattle have access to pasture and outdoor grazing whenever possible, which allows them to express their natural behaviors and live a more natural life. This can also improve their health and well-being.

* **No antibiotics or growth promoters:** Organic cattle are not given antibiotics or growth promoters, which can help to reduce the risk of antibiotic resistance and promote a more natural production system.

**Consumer benefits:**

* **Healthier food:** Organic beef is generally considered to be healthier than conventional beef, as it is free from synthetic chemicals and antibiotics. This can reduce the risk of health problems, such as antibiotic resistance and foodborne illnesses.

* **Support for sustainable agriculture:** By choosing organic beef, consumers can support a more sustainable agricultural system that is better for the environment, animal welfare, and public health.

* **Taste and quality:** Many people believe that organic beef has a better taste and quality than conventional beef. This is likely due to the fact that organic cattle are fed a more natural diet and are not given antibiotics or growth promoters.

In fairness its stacking up for more and more folks in the beef/sheep sector at least(just look at the latest published rather grim figures for incomes on conventional farms!!), especially the growing numbers doing it part time.

It's a pity if course instructors pass on their biasis in any area, poor work. Yes, the whole regenerative and biological field is there as well. Organic happens to be the only formalised, documented system. It's all about learning, go on farm walks, listen to podcasts; Farming for Nature, IOA. Use some of the practices that suit you. Certainly, the use of inorganic nitrogen can be reduced. It has fallen 31% in the last few years and the stock haven't gone hungry. As Dr. Cristine Jones says, 'the best contribution farming can make to the environment is to stop using artificial fertiliser'.

I do believe carbon farming will be a thing paid for in the future. Even Head of Teagasc Prof Frank O'Mara mentioned it. But I look too far ahead sometimes. Organic beef, chicken, pig meat, cereals, vegetables and fruit should all be niche, high end products. Sadly, looks like the supermarkets here and abroad are the main route to market and they'll only drive product one way.

There's already a quasi system of carbon "farming" except the farming is gone out of it as are the farmers.

Didn't dublin county council sell land or the carbon rights of Mountain land to a Web based multinational.

Farmers and farming will left aside in the carbon bs. Multinationals will simply buy land with the sole purpose of abandonment to nature. People and farmers are being wound that this is a positive. Naturalists are rubbing their hands at glee for consultancy jobs from the Multinationals. To sit in vans on site and claim an income.

For 'farmers' to welcome this leads me to believe they haven't much experience in the carbon side of farming.

Question to all.

What is the preferred level % of Organic matter in soil to farm while having peak production in grass, cereals or veg?

What is a higher level % of Organic matter that production drops off?

What is the mathematical conversion rate that laboratories use for soil Organic matter to carbon?

With 35/40% of the food production of the land not ending up being consumed, there is plenty room to feed many million more. Producing more doesn't increase the farmer margin, but uses a lot extra inputs.

I don't believe the organics are encouraging high yields or increasing productivity. I believe it's a different way of looking at things.

Possibly we should look at what we need to get out of our farms and see which process fits. For myself it's biodiversity, soil health , animal health, no chemicals, less pollution, less machinery, less risk, better wildlife, healthier animals and humans. I don't feel that I need to calculate the percentage of organic matter in the soil to achieve that,I should see it with my eyes.

Ah jaysus is this thread going to deteriorate into something akin to the dairy chit chat thread where there is constant sniping back and forth over which type of cow/system is better. Can people accept that a particular system may suit them but not a different one and just move on.

We are not in organics as it's too restrictive for our system but I appreciate other farmers converting to Organic status if that suits their system and posting their experiences. We should all learn from reading posts on F&F and take bits out to suit our own enterprises.

How do you learn Base. But by asking questions. It's the same in the dairy thread. They all learn from one another. You don't learn if you think your system is 100% with no feedback on the system or don't think it needs explaining.

I asked a poster how long they were organic as they seemed all the joys of spring being a new entrant from their entrant course. I never got an answer how long they were either way. It's their choice to answer or not. But we're all posters here and we can still ask questions. It's not sniping to ask. It is a forum.

Are you sure about that?

A farmer friend who had a commercial calf/beef farm along with three or four poultry rearing houses has converted to organics recently. He quit the cattle and focused on the poultry side of the farm.

Some interesting contributions. I'm officially organic since 2019. However I was farming part of my farm organically for many years before that, not that it matters, we are all equal in my view. It's a pity if the small scale egg producers are under pressure. I understand the bird flu lockdown, all free range egg producers are affected by this.

The majority of increased production has been down to genetic improvement not artificial inputs. Of course all the cos supplying those products claim its their product. One is always looking for an extra margin. For those who do cereals, heritage crops are in demand by bakeries. Lower yield, higher margin.

I don't know how many he has.

I certainly wouldn't be near a margain of 300 a year per animal. But have averaged 260 head past 5 years. But agree biggest issue i have now is sourcing stock. Feed,bedding, sheds all ok but such a small market makes it difficult to get stock. Look at ads on DD already looking for stock. Have 2 yrs left in my contract and its the above reason i may have to leave..

Google sheets might easier to use than excel blue, it saves everything automatically and I found it a bit easier to use than excel myself.

Conventional stock can absolutely be farmed organically, though they won't get certified, all of their progeny will be though once the farm is out of conversion.

So say a herd of 20 conventional cows with one bull go into conversion, all going well they'll all have 20 fully organic calves so no need to buy anything.

In terms of selling, organic farmers have access to a wider market than conventional farmers simply because they have access to both markets.

Now in saying all that, the lad looking for the easy money that wants to buy in a few bits of organic stock to graze for the summer will likely struggle to source stock.