NTA Publishes 2024 Fares Plan Changes

System · 24-01-2024 7:46pm #1

Most of the discounted Leap fares introduced in 2022, including the €2 TFI 90-minute fare in Dublin, are to remain in place, according to the National Transport Authority (NTA) Fares Determination for Public Service Obligation (PSO) services in the Greater Dublin Area, published today.

The TFI-90 €2 fare, which allows passengers free transfer between Dublin Bus, Luas and most DART, commuter rail and Go-Ahead Ireland services in Dublin, has been a huge success and has contributed to the increase in passenger numbers recorded across the city’s network last year.

NTA fares strategy
The new fares announced today are based on NTA’s fares strategy published last year. Under that strategy, fares are to be determined on a more equitable and easy-to-understand basis. The cost per kilometer travelled is to be consistent, and will be related to the straight line distance between the origin and destination of journey.

The NTA’s Fares Determination being published today focuses primarily on Dublin city and surrounding commuter counties, as a first step.

Dublin City Zone and Dublin Commuter Zone
Last year’s strategy also announced that a Dublin City Zone and a Dublin Commuter Zone were to be introduced. The Dublin City Zone is to extend approximately 23km from the city, and broadly equates to the existing 90-minute fare zone. The Dublin Commuter Zone extending to approximately 50km from Dublin city centre will include towns such as Drogheda, Navan, Trim, Enfield, Clane, Prosperous, Newbridge, Kildare, Greystones and Wicklow.

New all-modes tickets in 2024
Also announced today is a new all-modes ticket to be introduced this year, offering full access to Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead Ireland, Luas and Irish Rail services in the Dublin City Zone. The ticket is to cost €96 monthly or €960 annually, representing a saving of 38% compared to the existing equivalent of €155 and €1550. Additional savings can be made by customers availing of the product via Taxsaver.

Similarly, a weekly Leap cap covering services provided by all operators in the City Zone will be €24, compared to the current equivalent of €32.

For frequent travellers in the Dublin Commuter Zone the weekly and monthly ticket costs will vary according to the distance travelled. As an interim measure, commuters in towns just outside the Dublin City Zone travelling into the city, like Skerries, Balbriggan or Greystones, can continue to use the existing €32 weekly Leap ticket (€16 for young adults and children), so that they will see little or no difference in what they are paying now.

Bus fares in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford
Standard bus fares in the cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford will remain at the discounted rate of €1.35 under this Determination.

These changes are not projected to increase overall fare revenue, but represent a rebalancing of fares so that they are fairer and more consistent across the board. As such, fares for some journeys will go up a little, while fares for others will go down. Most customers covered by the Fares Determination published today will see no change whatsoever. Of the remainder, some will see a modest fare increase and some will see a fare reduction.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/nta-publishes-fares-plan/

lordleitrim · 24-01-2024 12:32pm

RTE news : Discounted public transport fares in Dublin to stay

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0124/1428326-transport-fares/

Good news!

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 12:48pm

Lots of changes to analyse in the fares determination report:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/publications/nta-fares-determination-2024/

bk · 24-01-2024 1:33pm

Some highlighted points:

A new all-modes ticket will also be introduced this year which will offer full access to Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead Ireland, Luas and Irish Rail services within the 'Dublin City Zone'.

Costing €96 euro per month or €960 annually, this will represent a saving of 38% for those availing of this ticket who would have previously paid €155 or €1,550 respectively.

Good news, though still very far off the €365 per year ticket you can get in the likes of Vienna and some other German cities.

A weekly Leap card cap for those travelling in the City Zone will now be reduced to €24 compared to the current €32 per week.

Fantastic news, a nice reduction the folks will automatically get without any effort.

Basically if use public transport 5 days a week and take more then 2 journeys, you will save with this. If you travel 7 days a week, you will save if take 2 journeys.

Standard bus fares in the cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford will remain at a discounted rate of €1.35.

Given the flat fares in these cities, I really don't understand how the Leap ticketing is so poor and requires driver interaction. They really could roll out the simple model 1 EMV tap to pay we discussed earlier. I suspect they are planning to also roll out a 90 minute ticket and capping in these cities too.

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664604#Comment_121664604

The 90 minute fares & capping will come in the provincial cities as they roll out the new networks - frustrating to have to wait I know, but they are in the pipeline.

I suspect that it’s a case of (like the network map!) the NTA want to have a good news story all in one go.

L1011 · 24-01-2024 1:57pm

This is an odd case of the new system being quite simple, but relatively hard to explain to people initially I'd guess.

People in the existing shoulder short hop towns will not be happy, possibly less so next year!

I wonder what Irish Rail will take off a card as the deposit for an epurse fare now, it's currently 4 but the max epurse fare looks like it will be 14 now.

960 all mode city zone is going to make Taxsaver make sense for hybrid WFH again now.

Citrus_8 · 24-01-2024 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664031#Comment_121664031

Agree, that timetable isn't well thought through. Maybe the NTA thinks that it's a bit too soon to amend it since we don't know how busy it will get within the next 12 months or so with the passenger numbers and need more data from the buses of how much time they need to make the trips. I'd of course, when we struggle with having enough drivers, reduce times so that we perhaps could use those free extra drivers on the other routes instead. I think that slashing off 7-12 minutes off some trips is possible.

bk · 24-01-2024 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664638#Comment_121664638

I'd say more of a case that the other cities get little attention from the NTA. It also took them years to roll out Leap cards, it was many years after Dublin got them and even then it was a piss poor implementation.

Though perhaps they are also waiting for the Next Gen ticketing to rollout before implementing it. Maybe not worth adding it to the old system if a new one is coming.

loyatemu · 24-01-2024 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664750#Comment_121664750

as someone in one of those Short Hop towns (Greystones) I can confirm I'm not happy. Dart fare was reduced from €4 to €3 last year, now it's going back up to €3.90 and as far as I can tell we're also losing the 90 minute free transfer. Cost of an annual ticket increasing from 1150 to 1400. Report unsurprisingly highlights a location (Gormanston) where fares will significantly reduce, but not the small (single?) number of locations facing increases. But at least I can take comfort that the new system is "fairer".

AngryLips · 24-01-2024 2:45pm

This seems worthy of its own thread: €960 annual Dublin public transport ticket covering all modes of transport (bus, rail and Luas)

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0124/1428326-transport-fares/

AngryLips · 24-01-2024 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664604#Comment_121664604

They've chosen a very weird time to announce a new annual ticket for Dublin given that the vast majority of people have just signed up to renew onto the old annual tickets in the last month. Will there be a facility for people to switch to the new tickets when launched?

pauraic1990 · 24-01-2024 3:11pm

Link to current year (2024) fare Determination

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2023-Fares-determination-v4.6.pdf

Dublin City Zone was extended and that cover Ratoath and Ashbourne. A new introduction to Dublin Commuter Zone.

Old Leap Fare:

Ratoath to City Centre: €3.64

Ashbourne to City Centre: €3.40

24 Hours Bus Eireann Red Zone: €7.30

7 days Bus Eireann Red Zone: €31.80

Note: It does not cover free Transfer to Dublin Bus, Luas or Dart

New Leap Fare:

Ratoath/Ashbourne to City Centre and onward within Dublin City Zone: €2.40 (Xpresso Fare)

Daily Cap: €6.00

Weekly Cap: €24.00

It a great improvement.

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665067#Comment_121665067

They’re not happening until later in the year (end of Q3).

p_haugh · 24-01-2024 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665193#Comment_121665193

Interesting how Greystones is out of the "Dublin City Zone", but Rush & Lusk are within it. Supposedly the leap fare for Greystones has gone back up to 3.90 (from 3.00) and you can no longer avail of the 90 minute fare as part of the same trip.

pad199207 · 24-01-2024 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665474#Comment_121665474

I think it’s the same for Naas too, which is scandalous as I would consider Greystones and Naas in the Metro Area. Although I think the 90 min fare still counts

cgcsb · 24-01-2024 5:03pm

That ticket is a joke at €960. If you assume 25 days annual leave there's 225 working days a year assuming a 5 day in office week. That's 450 single journeys. At €2 a journey that's €900. If the average worker is wfh 2 days a week thats more like €700. You have to travel weekends and holidays to make it worth while, quite pointless really, might aswel abolish or actually operate a good value annual ticket like the €365 in Vienna

Repo101 · 24-01-2024 6:12pm

I would have thought it would be better. Current price of Newbridge Dublin City Centre via Luas/145 is €19.70, new price is €15, a saving of 24%. Still much more expensive than the original SHZ and considering more people are being forced out of Dublin due to housing/rent, it's hardly much to be celebrating unless you are in work 5 days a week.

howiya · 24-01-2024 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666192#Comment_121666192

Don't think it's what people had in mind when they were campaigning for the short hop zone to be extended

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665857#Comment_121665857

Well as someone who does use public transport 7 days a week and paying the higher tax rate, this will mean I can get around for €46 a month (using the monthly ticket) which in my book is brilliant. Anything but a joke!

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666380#Comment_121666380

They were never going to get the €2 fares and rightly so.

Graduated fares based on distance, without the current cliff edge is a much fairer system.

My fear is that far more people from outer stations may now try the train that those boarding at stations closer to the city may find it increasingly difficult to do so as a result of these changes.

The Taxsaver scheme will offer more discounts over this too for regular travellers.

devnull · 24-01-2024 7:47pm

Note that all discussion from the main BusConnects discussion relating to today's announcement has now been merged into this one.

Moderator

billyhead · 24-01-2024 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666709#Comment_121666709

Is it not just cheaper getting the annual tax saver ticket via work?

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666873#Comment_121666873

I have a monthly tax saver.

AngryLips · 24-01-2024 8:16pm

Does this mean that we can expect intercity fares to increase over what they are currently? I assume yes, and potentially substantially.

Also, the fare structure is now separated from mode of transport. You will no longer be able to confidently catch Dublin Bus or Dart knowing that you'll only pay for a €2 journey because, for example, if you stay on the dart as far as Greystones, you'll cross into the commuter zone. Also, how will the fares be structured for someone doing a multi-modal journey into a Dublin suburb be charged for their fare? One fare into the city centre at commuter rate then another €2 fare for travel within the city zone? Or would that be classed as all one journey?

billyhead · 24-01-2024 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666889#Comment_121666889

Is the yearly one not cheaper overall?

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666921#Comment_121666921

It is but the monthly one suits my personal circumstances.

Not everyone wants to pay that much up front or owe their employer money.

Everyone is free to make their own choices you know!

LXFlyer · 24-01-2024 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666897#Comment_121666897

Intercity fares are already in distance based fare bands.

So no is the answer.

Repo101 · 24-01-2024 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666735#Comment_121666735

People were already travelling to closer stations to avail of the Short Hop Zone. Sallins had to expand its car park as a result of people travelling further to avail of the capped fares. Its absurd to suggest everyone was looking for €2 fares and these changes will hardly change any behaviour if you're in the city 2 days a week.

bk · 24-01-2024 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666709#Comment_121666709

It is certainly an improvement. But still far from ideal.

The fact that the maximum savings only apply to higher earners and only if your employer is part of the scheme (which many aren't) is really ridiculous.

At the very least, it should be available to all employees directly from revenue, with no need to get your employer involved.

But really the whole tax saver part should be scrapped and it should really be something like €365 annually like it is in Vienna, available to all, independent if they work or not or how much tax they pay.

€365 would be €30 per month. Say €35 or €40 if you take up a monthly option.

KLF · 24-01-2024 9:39pm

I happen to be moving to between Kilcock and Enfield and will need to get the train to Connolly the odd time. I was pretty surprised by the difference for the fare with Kilcock being at the edge of the short hop zone but Enfield(with a better car park and access) a few kms up the road was double, and you needed to buy a ticket.

I think this new system based on distance is fairer but people in the likes of Kilcock won’t be happy with the increase.

pad199207 · 24-01-2024 9:43pm

People in the likes of Naas, Greystones and Kilcock definitely wont be happy.

The fare increase and also losing the 90min fare cap.

Can see a lot hopping on at Sallins and then scanning on in Celbridge quickly

howiya · 24-01-2024 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666735#Comment_121666735

From the little I know of it they weren't campaigning for €2 fares. Sallins doesn't have the €2 fare so Newbridge obviously wasn't going to get a €2 fare.

But since you mentioned the €2 fare it is a prime example of a fare that isn't graduated based on distance. I can get to work (7km) or the other side of Dublin for €2. And its the best thing that has happened to public transport in Dublin in my opinion.

If someone can get to from Sallins to Dublin for €7/8 whatever the cost is, the person coming from less than ten minutes down the road shouldnt be paying the guts of €20 as per the example provided above. Anything over a euro difference between the tickets given the distance is excessive in my opinion and discourages the use of public transport but maybe thats what people want.

Mrs OBumble · 24-01-2024 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664604#Comment_121664604

Re:

Given the flat fares in these cities, I really don't understand how the Leap ticketing is so poor and requires driver interaction. They really could roll out the simple model 1 EMV tap to pay we discussed earlier. I suspect they are planning to also roll out a 90 minute ticket and capping in these cities too.

There's not actually a flat fare.

In Galway, there's a standard fare, which they explicitly mentioned. But there's also a higher fare that is officially for journeys over 7.5km - although in real life it's only applied on the 404, and by VERY newbie-just-out-of-training drivers on other routes

I'm pretty sure that Cork has similar.

howiya · 24-01-2024 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667256#Comment_121667256

Monthly (31 day) ticket in Vienna is €51 which may suit some people better. Alternatively they can pay €33 monthly towards the annual ticket via direct debit. We're lightyears behind.

bk · 24-01-2024 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667576#Comment_121667576

Yep, similar in Cork, the vast majority of routes are a flat fare, but a small number of routes that travel further from the city can have a higher fare, though in reality it is rarely charged.

Really it would be so much similar to make it all a flat fare and put a right hand validator in like Dublin has. They could have easily done this years ago!

bk · 24-01-2024 10:48pm

I notice that Leap short fare is being increased to €1.50

Can't we just reduce the 90 minute fare to €1,50, overnight make it a flat fare and eliminate most driver interactions.

Also I see they aren't increasing the cash long fare, which remains €2.60, a mistake IMO. Increase that and drive people to leap and away from cash and driver interactions.

Tomrota · 24-01-2024 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667569#Comment_121667569

Exactly. People want equitable, cost effective (not just monetary), and integrated fares. I find it hilarious that people sneer about this issue while people from Newbridge pay criminal amounts just to get to work. The same people claim to be in favour of increased public transport use. Public transport needs to be either A. Quicker and easier or B. More cost effective, in order for people to avail of public transport en masse. Provide this, alongside the infrastructure, and perhaps the entire Dublin-Wicklow-Kildare-Meath area wouldn’t be a giant car park every single morning with the second worst traffic congestion in the world. In any other EU country as wealthy as we are, this would be seen as a national tragedy and something that needs prioritisation. In Ireland, we clearly still have a US car-centric attitude with people completely disinterested in the issue. However I’ve noticed a lot more interest in the last few years, which informed the debate that most likely lead to these changes being implemented.

What value does it bring to this country to exclude certain people from the ability to transfer from bus to rail to bus, etc.? Point to point ticketing is obsolete- it’s a 20th century fare model. While in the next train station you have a la carte choice of Dublin bus, rail, DART, Luas, etc. for 2€ with unlimited capping. As far as I can see, the NTA are blaming ‘technological limitations’ as a reason for Dublin commuter bus services not having a LEAP cap and multi-modal transport options.

While the introduction of a new multi-modal monthly ticket is progress (in terms of the NTA), the NTA has failed to grasp commuting trends in a working from home environment. Or perhaps they have grasped it fully and are actively trying to discourage public transport usage outside the Dublin City zone to preserve the integrity of these routes (as they are already beyond the beyond swamped at rush hour). People need to grasp reality- the housing crisis is not going away in the next five years- the populations of Meath, Kildare and Wicklow will continue to rapidly accelerate. Since everything is centred around Dublin, people will need to commute there for the foreseeable future.

Scrapping the 90 minute fare in Balbriggan, Naas, and Greystones is also a tragedy.

From a higher level perspective, while it does make the fair system more equitable, nothing in this document is going to encourage significantly more public transport usage from what I’ve read.

long_b · 24-01-2024 11:19pm

As a matter of interest, anyone know where did they got that Newbridge to Dublin Heuston is "currently €10.85" ?

Is that just an old price (as it currently is €8.45) ?

B2021M · 24-01-2024 11:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667256#Comment_121667256

Does anyone know if this issue may be addressed? In particular making it available to all employees and self employed.

TheChrisD · 25-01-2024 3:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667757#Comment_121667757

The 90-minute fare is already down to €2 from the initially mooted €2.50, when all fares were reduced as part of the cost of living abatement measures. If anything, it will head up to that €2.50 mark in the next couple years.

Trampas · 25-01-2024 5:58am

Ill look forward to James lawless celebrating newbridge and Kildare price drop but falling to acknowledge or try put some slant on the 30% increase in sallins.

I sometimes get the train from sallins but more hazelhatch as roughly same distance away when you take into driving with and train but I prefer hazelhatch as was more parking and I go through the tunnel so better option than go via the luas. Work on the train also if quite. This increase makes my decision easier to make

Polar101 · 25-01-2024 6:44am

I wonder if that new zone is going to include other bus services like the 139? I use that particular route a lot, but while the fares are similar to the 90 minute ticket, they don't count towards the leap cap (or have the 90 minute transfer).

LXFlyer · 25-01-2024 6:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667916#Comment_121667916

€8.45 is the discounted online fare.

The single fare bought at the booking office or TVM is €10.85 (or €10.45 after 09:30).

long_b · 25-01-2024 8:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668656#Comment_121668656

That's odd - it's always €16.90 from either the machines or the kiosk (I don't use online booking )

LXFlyer · 25-01-2024 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668705#Comment_121668705

It’s not odd at all, as Intercity return fares have always been cheaper than two singles.

There is also an off-peak promotional fare available after 09:30 Monday-Saturday and all day Sunday of €10.45 single / €11.45 day return from the ticket office / TVM.

AngryLips · 25-01-2024 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666959#Comment_121666959

The fare determination document specifically states that there will be minor increases to intercity fares. If the fare structures are distanced-based, it makes sense that longer intercity journeys will go up in price.

Macy0161 · 25-01-2024 10:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665474#Comment_121665474

The fare difference essentially pays for the parking in Bray or Shankill, for a more frequent service (for those of us that park and ride, and could use any of the 3 stations).

long_b · 25-01-2024 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668726#Comment_121668726

Ah - I see. Apologies - I didn't think the one way would be more expensive.

Does this mean the new price of the return ticket could be less than €12 = 2 x €6 single tickets then ?

LXFlyer · 25-01-2024 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668869#Comment_121668869

The vast majority will not change, but some may over a number of years, but the change won’t be massive as your question asked.

LXFlyer · 25-01-2024 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669024#Comment_121669024

No - the fare structure is being changed for the likes of Newbridge to join the Dublin Commuter zone.

Trips within that zone will now have a simplified fare structure where a return equals the price of two single fares.

Trips outside the zone to other InterCity stations will still use the Intercity fares matrix.

bk · 25-01-2024 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668617#Comment_121668617

I'm well aware of that.

However if the government is serious about encouraging folks onto public transport and serious about climate change, then I believe they need to subsidise it more and make it more affordable.

I've mentioned before that I'm not in favour of completely free fares like some people call for, however I am very much in favour of them making it more affordable. At the very least guarantee to keep the €2/€1 fare for the next 10 years, but sure why not make it even cheaper, make it €1.50, vastly simplify and speed up the bus journey times by removing driver interaction and thus make public transport more attractive to even more people.

Also I really like the idea of the €365 annual fare.

These sort of prices are normal for public transport across Europe, make it more affordable and I can see many motorists reconsidering taking the car.

NTA Publishes 2024 Fares Plan Changes

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