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Ian Bailey RIP - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Well he was a very nasty man, I’d imagine that can lead towards shag all people at your funeral.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Well she saw the handwrutten article on the kitchen table in the morning when she got up, so yes, she probably believed he was working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Why do I need to read up on Marie Farrell

    I've discounted her evidence . What's the point reading all about her if it's inadmissible



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    That's what I think

    Bailey did both killed her and wrote the article to fool jules

    Didn't confide in Jules but asked her to provide an alibi because leaving the house to write a story wouldn't be believed



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    I think Jules knew he did. I can’t believe people think she is going to change her story now because he is dead. How would that make her look like.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I agree if she knows she can't talk now , maybe her deathbed I dunno

    I think Bailey kept it from her though

    How would he know how she'd react or would the daughter get to hear about it too

    Also her comments recently it doesn't look like she knows



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Its my understanding there was no funeral to attend. He was just cremated privately yesterday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    I wonder why people are so personally invested in the matter. Did Mr. Bailey steal a partner of yours?

    RIP Iano, we hardly knew ye.



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭easy peasy


    You haven’t discounted her evidence if you make a post along the lines of the following:

    “Except it doesn't indicate total innocence 

    The available evidence (see senan Moloney yesterday) points to Bailey as the most likely suspect

    That's even after you take into account Garda shenanigans and Marie Farrell 

    Now there are many non rational or non logical thinking persons who don't concur with above”

    All of your posts have been fanciful theories such as the idea Bailey wrote an article to leave on the table to fool Jules. You have no way to back this up, in fact you haven’t backed up any of them.

    But what is irritating me is that when another poster outlines a theory that is not aligned with your working theories, you call them out or ask them to back it up for example, having a go at Boggles over Jules’ involvement.

    You aren’t on some higher intellectual plateau, my “working theory” is that you just lack social skills.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Having had the sh*t beaten out of her before by Bailey, its unlikely Thomas was going to ask difficult questions such as "where were you last night?"

    Sounds like the woman was beaten into submission like many domestic abuse victims and learned not to ask difficult questions or get on the wrong side of him.

    Bailey clearly had a malign influence over her with potentially threats of more violence towards her.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Nah just beat the shite out of his own 3 known times oh and tried to ride her 18 year old daughter. No RIPs from moi. I wonder do some posters see that as normal, maybe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Yep- press only reported after the event- before that they reported that the “funeral was expected to be held over the coming days” or similar wording - there was no public announcement in advance- all done privately, potentially in conjunction with his surviving sibling in the UK



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    No it isn't. I'd imagine many Gardai question DPP's decisions all the time but privately. Often it may be purely because they put so much time into a case and feel they are sure they have the right suspect and then get angry if the DPP disagrees. A 2000 page file indicates a huge investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think it was the right decision not to have a regular funeral.

    If he did murder Sophie he didnt deserve a good send off.

    If he didnt do it he didnt deserve a media circus funeral.

    So either way it was for the best just to cremate him privately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    A section of posters are posting nonsensical stuff hence the high horse as you call it

    French hitman

    Bailey 100% didn't do it

    You're not helping yourself making it personal re social skills

    I don't believe I'm on a higher intellectual plateau either but I can think logically



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    She's currently suing Netflix for use of her images in the documentary. Its possible her motive at this stage is to put the whole thing to bed, whether he was guilty or not. Bailey himself was surrounded by a media circus, so I doubt she wants that. I can see her taking any secrets to the grave. In any case it would be her word against a dead man's so she could say anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Totally agree.

    BTW does anyone have access to the Senan Maloney article in yesterdays Indo? Behind a paywall obviously - was just wondering what the key information he outlined as a few posters have referenced it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Maybe you don’t about his violent history, fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I'll fire it up shortly

    In hindsight he's heavy on the hogwash but makes a few interesting points



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    02:30




    The death of Ian Bailey robs the family of Sophie Toscan du Plantier of justice, even though he was convicted in absentia in France for her murder and sentenced to 25 years in jail.

    I never had any doubt that he and he alone was her killer, having been the first reporter to interact with him and the first to interview him after his release from custody following his initial arrest in 1997.

    So convinced was I and photographer Jim Walpole of his guilt after our own interview that we immediately proposed flying to England to delve into Bailey’s background - expecting him to be charged imminently with her murder.

    That did not happen, even though An Garda Síochána submitted a detailed file to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

    But the material gathered in England – about which I gave a further statement to two gardaí in just the past fortnight – was deeply disturbing, if not damning.

    It painted a picture of a man already wanted by Avon and Somerset police in relation to claims of a forged life insurance policy in the name of his wife, Sarah Limbrick, from whom he was subsequently acrimoniously divorced, amid allegations of violence and threats.

    After all, why did Ian Bailey come to Ireland in the first place, taking work as a fish-gutter, having worked as a journalist in Gloucester?

    That city was the scene of the House of Horrors and the killing spree of Fred and Rosemary West. It could not be reported at the time – being hugely prejudicial – but several sources on that research trip told of Bailey being consumed by the case and of his regularly holding vigil at 25 Cromwell Street where the Wests’ victims died. The house has since been demolished.

    Ian Bailey had form. He repeatedly attacked his partner, Jules Thomas, and once caused her to be hospitalised with a huge section of her scalp missing and severe damage to an eye. He was arrested at Cork Airport at that time, and subsequently served brief incarceration.


    Sophie Toscan du Plantier

    It is admitted in the witness statements of both Bailey and Thomas that he left their house after midnight on the night of Sophie’s murder. He claimed he needed to go to an outhouse; something about writing an article for the Sunday Tribune. But it was a Sunday night – there was never any rush on that story.

    He had severe scratches on his hands and arms visible in the immediate aftermath of her death, including a deep triangular ‘nick’ on his hairline.

    The killer of Sophie had chased her through brambles. The little red hatchet she kept by the back door was missing. Investigators theorised she used it to hit Bailey before fleeing, resisting his efforts to impose himself on her.

    Ian Bailey profile: journalist claimed bid for new life in Ireland became ‘torture’ over link to Sophie killing

    ‘I feel nothing’ says Jules Thomas, former partner who stood by Ian Bailey for decades

    ‘We still have reason to hope’: Sophie Toscan du Plantier’s son says 2024 will be ‘pivotal’ to solving her murder

    It was always a sexual motive by a local man who knew her – and I told Bailey as much when he asked my opinion, as I was a crime reporter at the time.

    I said to him: “Look at the crime signature – overkill. Her skull crushed with a rock and block. That is not pre-meditated. It is a rage killing.

    “How many houses on this peninsula, 400? Half them are holiday homes, empty in December. Leaves 200. How many of those are retirement places? Take out another 100.

    “You are looking for a man in the prime of his powers, aged 25 to 40, after that. How many of those around here? The guards will have this wrapped up in a fortnight. It is 100pc a local killer – look how hard this house is to find.”

    Ian Bailey listened and said nothing. But within a short time, he was writing lurid stories about a French connection, as if it was a Day of the Jackal assassination.

    But what contract killer puts a concrete block in the overhead bin of an aircraft? If the murderer did not come prepared, then it was a spur-of-the-moment killing – in December, in empty countryside.

    From a sworn legal statement I gave over 20 years ago: “I was asked to go with a photographer to cover the story of the killing of Sophie Toscan du Plantier, which was receiving international attention.

    “I had been told by my newsdesk that we should link up with the local corr, Ian Bailey, on our arrival. We did so; he joined us in Martin Maher’s van, and we drove to the crime scene at Toormore with Bailey briefing me as we went.

    “He was a tall, powerful man who looked rather dishevelled. My first impression was that he was someone who had embraced the bohemian lifestyle of West Cork.

    “Bailey provided me with a series of details of the killing, which were to my mind impressive in the breadth and scope. I was able to fill a couple of pages of my notebook before we had even arrived at the crime scene.


    Senan Molony with Ian Bailey in his home in 1997. Photo: Jim Walpole

    “When we got there, Bailey hung around in the background and did not make any introductions to gardaí, despite my assumption that his level of knowledge must have come from his relationship with local officers.”

    The scales fell from my eyes when I learned Ian Bailey had been arrested in February 1997.

    On his release without charge, he granted me an interview, perhaps because of our previous meeting, but also because he wanted to blacken the name of the gardaí by way of defence. It led to a front page headline: ‘I did not kill Sophie’.

    He claimed, as he would continue to do, that he had never met or spoken to Sophie, but only seen her once, two years before. Her neighbour Alfie Lyons, now dead, gave evidence that he was 90pc sure he had introduced them.

    I doubted Bailey because he had told me he knew the murder victim was French, and referred to her by a name other than du Plantier — Buoniol, her maiden name. I also found it incredible given that he was presumably a naturally curious journalist. She had star quality.

    Ian Bailey confirmed himself as the principal suspect: “It looks to me as if they are not looking for anybody else.” He claimed he had been threatened by gardaí while on the way to custody, saying he had been warned he would end up face-down in a ditch with a hole in the back of his head.

    “At no time did I attach a shred of credence to these claims because of my extensive experience in this area. No, arresting officers in a major murder inquiry could conceivably allow such a major compromise as would come from resorting to making such a threat,” I said in my statement.

    But Ian Bailey insisted it had happened in the garda car taking him to the station – not, notably, on the way back, if officers had been frustrated by a lack of confession.

    Then I asked: “What about the scratches, Ian?”

    He said he had told the guards when under arrest that he had a sidebar selling Christmas trees, and got them from lopping them down. I can still see his mouth opening and closing like a goldfish when I protested: “Who the hell buys a Christmas tree on the 23rd of December? They’ve already got them up.”

    Turkeys came into it days later – belt and braces, because he never said turkeys to me that night, but had instead told trees to the gardaí. Henceforth he had been nicked by an upside-down bird… but I knew then he was lying.

    Bailey confirmed to me in early 1997 that gardaí had previously interviewed him regarding a domestic dispute between himself and his partner. “Jules and I had had ups and downs before,” he said. He said gardaí were once involved at the behest of a third party. This was before he hospitalised her with severe injuries.

    He also admitted a very acrimonious divorce. News gathering in Britain confirmed this, with former bosses describing Bailey as having had “a bit of a temper”.

    The father of Bailey’s ex-wife cited psychological cruelty as being one of the grounds for the divorce. There were detailed incidences of physical abuse suffered at the hands of Ian Bailey. Corroboration came from a former girlfriend of Bailey, Ellie Carey. She said she believed Bailey had been changed because of the “frustration and hurt” he had experienced in the separation.

    Former colleagues and friends also repeatedly told me that while in Cheltenham, Bailey had a penchant for causing fights by being abusive to people for effect.

    Ms Carey said he could be “niggly” and “narky” with people. That impression was extremely marked, and many people I spoke to in England agreed that Bailey enjoyed getting up people’s noses as a form of pastime. He liked to “push a situation to see what happened”.


    A cross placed at the spot where Sophie Toscan du Plantier was killed in Schull, West Cork

    That’s what occurred when Bailey, who had been drinking all night, went to Sophie’s house seeking sex. Don’t forget she answered the door after presumably shouting “Who is it?” while in bed. The answer meant it was someone she knew.

    Bailey probably picked up a bottle of wine left inside her door as he tried to worm his way in – which is when she used the hatchet. Incredibly, he took away the bottle.

    He later wrote about a “Champagne clue” – a journalist reporting on his own murder – but the gardaí didn’t know about this missing item and dismissed the story as a “flyer”.

    But two months later a full bottle was found in a nearby field by the son of Sophie’s housekeeper… the article had almost been a confession. Almost, but never enough.

    Of course he did repeatedly confess, when drunk, which he brushed off as “black humour”. Who does that, when practically in the frame?

    For all these reasons, and many more, I have always been convinced, certain, sure.

    Brutal Ian Bailey murdered beautiful Sophie.

    Stay up to date on the latest news with the Irish Independent's WhatsApp



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    The means doesn’t justify the end though- Gardai got rightly criticised for adding 2 and 2 and getting 6.

    They made mistakes- they tried to fit round pegs in square holes. They didn’t abide by procedures.

    Gene Kerrigan in a 2017 article lays it out much more clearly than I could -




  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin


    Again, you're taking this very personally. There's a whole world out there, go enjoy it rather than fixating on what someone may or may not have done 25 odd years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭easy peasy


    There’s more bluster and hot air in that article than there has been on the entire thread! And that’s certainly saying a lot!

    I find his support for the Gardai in his sworn statement particularly disappointing. I think it’s fair to say that the Gardai made plenty of threats throughout this investigation, in fact the prevailing view I have from speaking to people in the area is that there was a general distrust of the Gardai in West Cork at that time and a fear that if information was given to the Gardai, one might quickly find oneself on the suspect list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Thanks for that. Nothing really “new” there - it’s all been gone over 1000 times / it could just as easily be a poster here who’s followed the story from the beginning expressing their view.

    The person is entitled to express themselves - sure. But I’m not any surer of his guilt as a result of reading that and I was expecting something more than just a rehash and speculation - and it begs the question now, what new evidence might the Gardai submit or evidence not previously disclosed that might tip the balance towards believing Bailey was the killer?

    If we’ve learned anything about this case, I certainly won’t be believing just the word of the Gardai, that’s for sure



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Nah nothing new in it. Hard to know if they’ll have any new evidence. If you believe they were getting in the way on purpose I’d imagine some of the relevant people are now retired , dead etc. Maybe the current Gardai will be able to solve it. Hard to see how though. We will most likely never know, possible someone gives a deathbed confession but I really don’t know how common that is in general. If it was Bailey and Bailey alone knew then that ship has already sailed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Are you copying my posts? 🤪

    I see we’ve pretty much came to the same conclusion - not even the press have an exclusive “inside track” here as to what happened and why - what that tells me is that unless theres brand new and damning evidence against Bailey, be it testimony, DNA or whatever , then the outcome of the file submitted to the DPP, whenever that occurs, will be a total non event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    He makes a few interesting points re the turkeys rage killing alibi etc

    You wouldn't call him a serious journalist with all the drama he adds into the story



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It’s funny- usually if a suspect dies or if a conviction has been secured for a major crime, you’ll often get a feature in the media outlining all of the things they were prevented from saying whilst that person was alive or without conviction.

    There’s been absolutely zilch in the newspapers or TV over the last few days if “new information” about Bailey - nadda.

    It’s very strange - I thought there would be a lot more facts and such that the public weren’t privy to.

    Saying that, the Gardai are still appealing for witnesses to come forward even now- there’s definitely someone they’re waiting on to walk into their station and make a statement- they know this person by name - it doesn’t feel like just a random fishing exercise - whether that person, whoever they are, will do that? We just have to wait and see.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Several of the witnesses have now died. Anyone who comes forward from here on in, its their word against a dead man's. There never was any hard evidence such as finger prints or DNA and they are unlikely to turn up at this stage, including on the rock.

    The gardai will go through the motions and close this case again in a few months time. Usually when the only known suspect dies, that brings a case to a close.

    Re the Maloney article, its hard to know. The champagne bottle thing is interesting, and you'd have to go all the way back and source some of Ian Baileys articles on the murder, if they still exist. Did he mention the bottle clue in them?

    As for him being nicked by a turkey, has anyone in the history of killing a turkey being nicked in the head by them? Unlikely. Did anyone actually see him being nicked? And a credible witness at that, not someone with an agenda or who was afraid of him?



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