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Champions Cup 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I liked the old format better. But this tournament has been very exciting. Some sides are flying and playing unbelievable rugby.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    As much as last year's format made no sense at all to me, I've found this year's very easy to follow and the balance between fairness and keeping interest in the later pool games has been very good. Whether that's through luck or design remains to be seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    In what way is the current format hard to follow?

    I've read the LNR don't want to give the extra weekend back now, so i can't see any return to 6 pool games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,345 ✭✭✭✭phog


    For the fans that follow rugby week in and week out it's probably ok to follow but if they want to grow the product the ordinary person in the street won't get their head around 6 teams in a pool but they only play 4 games.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We are (almost definitely) never going back to 6 game weekends for the group stages so there is no point pining for it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You hardly have to be Einstein to understand 2 teams from each of 3 leagues and you don't play the other team from your own league.

    I doubt the "ordinary person in the street" could tell you off the top of their head which other teams were in the Irish teams' pools, so this all seems like a bit of an imagined up issue to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,345 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'm only telling you what I've experienced from people who like to follow the "Heineken Cup" and have asked about the format.

    In Cork at the Glasgow match I met a couple from Glasgow at a coffee shop, they couldn't understand why we weren't playing them. These are a couple that follow the URC.

    I accept, it's easier to explain than the two pools of 12 teams last year but it's still crazy to have pools of "x" teams and not all teams play each other in the pool



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,998 ✭✭✭leakyboots



    One of the Opta twitter pages had them up. I did find some stuff on Opta Analyst that I looked briefly at (I focused on Coombes out of interest because I'd seen posts about him not being in good form this season, even though Opta were putting up tweets as far back as round 3 and his name was featuring for various metrics).

    Coombes stats would seem to back up about his form being good - his workrate for e.g. in Europe alone.

    ******************************

    Caveat Emptor: I'm no data analyst obviously so I'm sure my rudimentary way of just focusing on the top carriers or URC players and comparing them is probably the wrong way to go about it. Was most impressed by his ruck work, with and without the ball and he's featuring well in a variety of different metrics.

    In defence:

    Second most defensive rucks hit of URC players in Europe (21st overall with English/French players thrown in). Hurley-Langton is 1st URC (effectiveness 20%, Coombes 12.8%). Prendergast is 5th but effectiveness of 25%. McCann is 22.7%. Naomh Joe McCarthy has a 10% effectiveness rate, however, to be fair to him, he's hitting his amount of rucks with less minutes than the above (apart from McCann, almost identical time).

    Coombes is first URC player for tackle attempts (19th overall). Hurley-Langton, Prendergast and Timoney also in URC Top 20. Coombes success rate of 90.9% is good compared to the other Top 20 (HL and Prendergast have higher %s) and he's 7th out of that Top 20 for dominant tackles (Prendergast slightly better %, others behind.

    He's fifth URC player in terms of minutes played overall. I think he's covering a lot of the dirty work that Jean Kleyn does... was in second row in Europe this season or just at 8?

    In attack:

    He's top carrier of URC in Europe and 4th overall. Only 7 of his carries weren't into contact... he's 55 carries ahead in that regard of URC players! Very clear what his role is. Of that Top 20 he has the lowest dominant carry rate... but he's 8th for gainline success. He's consistently making some very hard yards is my reading of that?

    In addition, of those Top 20 carriers he's 2nd for committing 2+ tacklers to his carries.

    Can't find offloading stats for Europe here but he's well capable of an offload. At the very least he's freeing up space in the backline if we get quick ball, which if you look at Munster's linebreaks stats or the likes of Nankivell's stats alone... appears to be working, maybe? Also, he's Munster's second highest offloader for the season behind Frisch so maybe that solves that one?

    Rucks: He's just outside the Top 20 overall (25th) for offensive rucks hit. 3rd highest of URC players. HL and Prendergast in lower top 20 but 44 and 46 rucks behind him.

    Ruck effectiveness of 91.9%, which is 3rd of the top 20 (1% behind Rory Darge, his name crops up a lot actually and I never really paid much attention to him). HL is 81.9% effectiveness, Prendergast 92%.

    No stats on tries but we know what he can do in the tight a few yards out. 38 tries in 86 caps for Munster. Anthony Foley, our former top try scorer (before Howlett, Earls, Zebo and Conway came along) was 39 tries in 201 games.

    *****************************

    But it's an interesting site. I found filtering for URC players interesting as I'm not too fussed what the Brits and the French are up to and then adding them into the mix after.

    Hurley-Langton (who caught my eye in some of Connacht's games) and Prendergast feature not far behind Coombes in some metrics, ahead in others. Jack Crowley's ruckwork is very effective but he only hit 32 of them, still, good for a 10! Keenan hit 24 at 100%. Tadhg Beirne hit 78 and is at 94.9% which is impressive. McCann, who I really liked in the games I saw him in earlier this season, was virtually the same as Beirne which is impressive and his tackle success is superb, almost 99%. Prendergast's success rate is super too. Craig Casey is 3rd URC for tackle evasion which isn't surprising I guess, the little eel. Calvin Nash is Top 10 for dominant tackle % alongside Rob Russell.

    Hodnett (9), McCarthy (10) and Prendergast (9) show up well for dominant tackles, Coombes has 8. They're all top 20 for that stat for URC players.

    I don't know is there much between Prendergast and Coombes overall basically, depends on what the coach wants out of them, Coombes doing more work but maybe Prendergast more efficient in certain areas (defensive ruck effectiveness for e.g., Coombes better offensively?)? CP is top URC player for breakdown steals with 6, HL is 5th with 5 Coombes has 2. It's a pity Conan and Doris haven't featured as I'm guessing they haven't had enough minutes (min. 240 mins to counted) in all the above as I'd love to compare. Similarly, it's a pity Edogbo is injured as he's not too far away at first glance in some metrics when you go past the first page. I'd like to look at Joe McCarthy a bit more to see is the hype real.

    It's all here - https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/01/european-club-rugby-stats-hub/ is the site, someone with more skills and know-how could probably spend a bit of time doing a proper deep dive and present it better! (we can all twist a stat I'm sure!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭RAKM


    Leinster v Leicester on Sat April 6 at 5.30. Live on RTE2. Saints v Munster on 7th at 12.30. Cant see what game ITV are showing.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Leinster game kicks off at 8pm. And ITV are showing the Northampton v Munster game.




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think I'd rather see Leinster win the CC than Ireland the 6N this year, to be honest.

    I don't think either team is in the right shape for a win though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Should be a good atmosphere for that Leinster game - 8pm Saturday night kickoffs are always sociable. With this much notice it'll probably come close to a sell out too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭RAKM


    Thats great. Was hopin Munster would be on ITV. Both games free to air.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Its a favourable time for travelling fans giving them plenty of options to get home on sunday, but for atmosphere its gonna be poor, which will favour the visitors



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Having gone to lots of Leinster games in the Aviva my experience has been the opposite. The lunchtime games have a much quieter, more subdued, atmosphere (and much smaller crowds). The Saturday evening games often sell out, and always have a much more boozed up (ie, vocal) crowd.

    Edit: unless you meant the Munster game, in which ignore the above, I'd agree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    My Flight gamble didnt pay off :( 90e to change to the later one on Sunday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Anyone know if there's a calendar of fixtures I can subscribe to? The official website only seems to have a PDF of the fixtures to download.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,128 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Cardiff next year.

    Bilbao the year after



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    God that's boring



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  • Posts: 0 Tommy Ugly Sax


    Neither are new or especially original, but would say both are good trips for fans.

    Bilbao in 2018 - while wet on the day, and hard to get to and get back from, was great fun I have to say.

    I still think Cardiff is one of the best rugby stadiums in the world, if not the best. Maybe that's coloured by some absolutely brilliant days there like 2009 (Ireland GS) or 2011 (Leinster v Northampton), but it's easy to get to and brilliant fun IMO.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not been to Bilbao but absolutely agree. Cardiff is a great stadium. The city is not well set up for external matches though (as opposed to Welsh ones). It just doesn't have enough accommodation. But always enjoyed attending it all the same.

    Also....it's just boring. I would like to see the final in Italy or somewhere new.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,345 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It's a fair few years now since it was in Cardiff and it's not that difficult for the Irish fans to get there and it's probably one of the best stadiums to have hosted a final.

    I'd like Rome to get one or at least one in Italy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Saracens v Toulon was the last final in Cardiff in 2014.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,128 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Indeed. Boring is the word. I wonder who actually wanted the final?

    Lisbon or somewhere in Italy would have been fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭crisco10


    The reselection of Bilbao is a strange one. Either it was incredibly successful financially and with local engagement, or is it a lazy "copy and paste" from 2018? Cardiff feels boring alright, but yeah after 10+ years without it, probably fair to return there...Especially if Welsh rugby needs money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,345 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Cardiff may seem boring because of the amount of times the Final has been held there but it really is one if not the best stadium to host a final and has been said it is 10 years since the last final was held there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,064 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Cardiff is a great town for the game too. Its small enough, and has the nightlife concentrated enough, thats theres a great buzz around the place for the weekend of a big game. Much better than places like Paris or London where they're so big the game isn't really an event for the city.

    Accomodation is always a problem though unfortunately, theres never enough of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,904 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Bilbao is fantastic. I'd recommend you go for a week, bring the kids if you have some. Lots to see and Bilbao is a wonderful city.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    I loved the Bilbao trip in 2018. Amazing city, great food and drink.

    Great Spot nearby, Logrono for wine tasting.



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