Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Israel and its western lapdogs continue to show how despicable they truly are. The information they are relying on about the supposed actions of a few employees was most likely obtained by torture.

Interesting. I wasn't aware ICJ could find against a terrorist organisation.

I checked the ICJ judgement and I didn't see that in their judgement - do you have a paragraph reference? There are a lot of pages so I may have just missed it.

Probably when they mentioned Hamas releasing the hostages. They would have acknowledged that by taking the hostages, Hamas committed a war crime.

Surprised Hamas hasn't been calling them prisoners of war. Not that they are, but you know how Hamas thinks.

Sorry - I'm not seeing where the ICJ acknowledged where anyone committed a war crime.

By the way, I'm not defending Hamas at all. Just pointing out that the ICJ judgement is very clear and very limited. For example, absolutely Israel has not been found to have perpetrated genocide. But some people are actively stating it.

"85. The Court deems it necessary to emphasize that all parties to the conflict in the Gaza Strip are bound by international humanitarian law. It is gravely concerned about the fate of the hostages abducted during the attack in Israel on 7 October 2023 and held since then by Hamas and other armed groups, and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."

You complain when I repeat myself, but you keep repeating your misunderstanding of my point. I don't have to give a blanket defence for all such deaths because I wasn't claiming that there could never have been any problem with any of them. It's a war - there will be all sorts of incidents, some excusable, some not.

But the claim was that Israel was unique among democracies in actively targeting journalists - based on high numbers of deaths of supposed journalists. I explained why this was a misunderstanding of the situation in Gaza. I won't repeat it yet again. I don't know whether a similar situation applies in those parts of the West Bank that are controlled by Hamas, but it seems highly likely.

Yep. Ireland an absolute disgrace. We are going to NY next week and I am sorry to say I will be ashamed to say I'm from Ireland.

Ever wonder why other countries aren't supporting this farce at the ICJ. Just look at who you would be aligning with , SA / ANC , Bolivia and Mexico. What a beautiful lot.

Like down with pigs and you will smell of s#it.

I can see this backfiring on Ireland yet. And they will deserve every bit of I'll will coming their way. This is after all the same country that opened a book of condolence on Hitlers death.

It is remarkable that you find a picture on a signature is "clearly genocidal" yet you you seem unable to agree that 11,000 dead children is genocide.

Gaza is not currently threatening Israel. Gaza is a wasteland full of dead people.

Still, the ICJ have at least now told Israel they must stop.

Source: Haaretz (paywall)

Egypt considered recalling its envoy to Israel after allegations made by the Israeli defense team at the world court about Cairo's failure to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza, according to the Wall Street Journal.

"Whatever good or bad things we may say about the legal reasoning of the ICJ, it is the humanitarian catastrophe [in Gaza] and the need to end it – including the situation of the Israeli hostages – that resonates from" the Court's ruling - Aeyal Gross

The IDF said it has opened a humanitarian corridor for residents in Khan Yunis to move away from areas of fighting, and published a recording of evacuees from Khan Yunis chanting: "The people want to overthrow Hamas."

ISRAEL: Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar, addressing Israel's cabinet, demanded to establish an investigative committee to examine the failures that lead to Hamas' October 7 attack.

Demonstrations calling for the release of the hostages in Gaza and rallies against the Netanyahu government will be held this evening in several locations across Israel.

In Tel Aviv, thousands are expected at three separate rallies. The first calls for immediate elections; the second, under the banner of "Never again is now," after International Holocaust Memorial Day, calling to return the hostages; and a third anti-occupation bloc-led protest calling for a ceasefire, ending the Gaza siege and a hostage deal.

Family members of Israeli hostages held in Gaza protested today in front of PM Netanyahu's house in Caesarea for the third week running, demanding a hostage deal.

Denialism.

Genocide requires intent, in the case of war, this can be gleaned in part by how the war started. For example there is plenty of evidence of Russian genocide in Ukraine, and intent is plausible given that Russia started a war of conquest in which Ukraine had not provoked them in any way. Same is true of the Nazis against Poland and other countries they invaded. Israel by contrast was provoked and has casus belli. IMHO that means the bar for such a ludicrous claim as "genocide" is much, much higher.

You need to prove that Israel is not targeting Hamas and that civilians killed were actually murdered and not collateral damage. Even then, you have to prove that such deaths go beyond war crimes (which happen in all wars) and are part of something much larger.

To be clear, cases of specifically targeting civilians, like what is alleged to have happened with snipers targeting nuns in a church, are clear war crimes, and should IMHO be prosecuted to the fullest extent of Israeli or International law.

Funny how you say "since 1967" as before 1967 the West Bank was territory of Jordan and the Gaza Strip was under the sovereignty of Egypt. It is thus quite convenient to only refer to Palestinians "since 1967."

So, explain to me how a picture in a signature shows intent? I'm struggling with the whole signature thing to be honest.

And again, seeing as you state the claim of genocide is "ludicrous", why did SA take a case and why did the ICJ find the case "plausible".

I doubt you think the ICJ is ludicrous but there's no apparent consistency in your posts as regards basic logic.

I certainly do think that a signature of the Palestinian flag with "from the river to the sea" might trigger some but given exactly the same graphic and the phrase has been used by Israel, it's seems hypocritical to be outraged by it.

We are in agreement with war crimes - any and all Hamas and IDF crimes should be investigated and this found culpable brought to justice.

It's nothing of the sort.

12 UN staff so far accused of taking part in the mass-rape/mass-murder attacks of 7 October against the Jews and others.

I wonder how much influence they have had over the UN narrative the meantime. How can we trust what the 'UN' says now. It would explain why the UN has been seen to be so biased against Israel, instead of being balanced. UN has lost much of its credibility now. Well played by the radical Islamists though, they have really made fools out of the UN, and so easily.

It's not really a UN anymore at all is it? If it was honest it would call itself now the Divided Nations, at least that would be honest.