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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There doesnt seem to be any doubt the turkey and tree business was done in 22nd. Multiple witnesses. One of the turkeys sold to a local butcher.

    It was more common back then to only decorate / put tree up for Christmas just before it, sometimes even only for Christmas Eve. Rather than Christmas starting in early December.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I'm not doubting he sold the Turkey on the 22nd. Just seems unusual to kill them so close to Xmas normally believe they would be killed and left hang for a few days



  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭csirl


    What's possible and what's probable are not the same thing. There are murders in Dublin where it might be possible for any one of 100,000 people living in walking distance to do it.

    If you are saying its possible for Bailey, then you have to include 100's of people living within 1 hrs walk, which would likely include many livibg alone with no alibi.

    Tnat he may have been violent doesnt make it probable either. There are likely dozens of people in the locality who have convictions for violent crime. West Cork has one of the highest densities of courthouses in the country in spite of it being largely rural. Go along to a random District Court hearing and there'll be multiple people on the list accussed of violent crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Daniel would have to have made the phone call from a public phone box. Some code word to be on the secure side. The recipient of the phone call, maybe called somebody else, maybe the killer. The killer could also have been living in Ireland as well, - didn't need to be French or travelling to Ireland.

    All possible.

    I still think a professional hitman would have used a gun and a silencer.

    But still Daniel's motive is from a financial perspective very very strong. He did avoid a very costly divorce and he did not travel to Ireland upon hearing of his wife's death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    While no evidence of sexual assault was found. The motive for Bailey could have been sexual. Maybe she turned him down and he was furious. Not saying this definitely happened but does give some justification for a motive



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    To me that's hard to imagine.

    Bailey would have to wait very long to have a sexual encounter with Sophie, - she was rarely at the cottage anyway. If he wanted to cheat at Jules he'd probably had other choices in the area, and also way sooner than to wait for Sophie.

    And then, how would he have known she would have been alone that night, or even at home? The walk over to her cottage could easily have been in vain.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But if it wasn't sexual, why then would he have attacked her? It's not plausible at all. So either his one and only attempt at getting his hole from a random woman happened to end in him killing her or alternatively he just left the main road, walked down her land and got her out of the house simply to beat the life out of her? Neither scenario really sound realistic tbh!

    Plus the attacker surely must have known her (and her him). She had her boots on - if she was running for her life from the house then I cant see why she would have wasted time in putting them on.

    Plus finishing her off with the block rather than either of the weapons that had already been used and rather then the array of rocks available was to make some form of a statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭FrankN1


    It is plausible. Because he may have been enraged that she rejected him. It may not the be the number one theory but I've read enough people saying Bailly had no sexual motive just because of lack of forensic evidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,245 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I read in an online piece in The Irish Mirror that there were initially 54 suspects and Bailey was not one of them.

    But a Garda who was at the scene when Bailey was there suggested him as a suspect.

    One of the reasons this Garda found Bailey suspicious was because he (Bailey) said that Sophie had not been sexually assaulted.

    Typical Bailey, shooting his mouth off, getting himself in trouble ?

    But one has to ask why would he offer such information ?

    Was it just a throw away comment, or was it Bailey playing mind games with the Gardai ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Those 54 names would make for interesting reading.

    He was a journalist stringing stories. Information about the case was his pitch.

    Could have gleaned the information all sorts of ways without him being the culprit. If you heard the victim was found fully clothed it wouldnt be much of a leap to deduce that.

    If he was 100 percent innocent he wouldnt think such deductions would dangerous to make.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If you were that deluded and or desperate to think you could roll up at 3am, 4am or whatever for a fling, I cant imagine an individual in that distorted frame of mind taking no for an answer. Bailey dwarfed Sophie. And yet zero signs of attempted sexual assault.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Looking at the photos of the murder scene, Sophie was still fully clothed so it wouldn't have taken a genius to figure she was unlikely to have been sexually assaulted.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But there is no evidence that he ever wandered around at night looking to get laid (I dont recall any stories about him even being unfaithful to Jules).

    People are simply trying to fit a reason for Bailey killing her (because sure doesn't everyone know it was him!!!) and not trying to step back and take an objective look at the murder and the range of suspects.

    Bailey was a violent woman beating drunk but there is no believable motive there and possibly no opportunity (as the murder could have been before he left the pub or the following morning). Other people had both motive and opportunity but for whatever reason are being ignored.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I've consumed everything about the case but I flip flop all the time.

    Even in the Christmas day swim video, the woman holding the camera says to Bailey "You're a man of many words, do you've any few words for the camera".

    Bailey responds "My comment is you'll have to speak to my lawyer".

    I know that sounds innocuous, but is that a clue into the mindset of someone expecting to be interviewed by Gardai.

    It's an unusual response to make.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    It's been covered somewhere else but another article had said the same thing before Bailey.

    I don't find it suspicious anyway.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I have a dark and sarcastic sense of humour and quite often will say something I find funny and if you know me will find funny but to a third party will just probably seem strange so Bailey's comment could well be something similar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There are said to be the following reasons for killing

    anger, concealment, jealousy, revenge, love and gain

    Which of the above or combination of was it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    She was just filming people going for the Christmas swim. I'm guessing most people's response was "Happy Christmas" or "Jaysus tis freezing".

    I find his response unusual. That's all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If you are one of the later ones to be asked, if you reply normally you will come across as repetitive of whats been said. If you have a reputation as a man who keeps his cards close to his chest, thats an apt response to both maintain that rep and distinguish yourself from other comments.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If someone you know said it to you, would you think it unusual?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    In context, I find it strange.

    It might be a clue to his mindset at the time. That's all. It's defensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,245 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    He may have known of Sophie prior to December 1996, and had a sexual interest in her.

    But on the Saturday it's feasible that he saw her in Schull and that aroused that sexual interest again.

    Only recently an uncle of Sophie's brought up something Bailey said on his very own podcast.

    It's linked in a post on this thread about a month ago.

    Apparently Bailey was talking about Sophie's movements on the Saturday and started offering information about her movements that was never before know.

    How did Bailey know this, maybe because he was keeping an eye on her that day?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If it was never known, how does the uncle know Baileys account is accurate or based on his observations rather than a deduction?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,245 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    If there had been a murder in the area two days before ?

    Yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,255 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    All the more reason for someone to use it in a black humour kind of way.

    Can you imagine an innocent person, but a certain type who likes to create an aura of mystery using it after a murder? Its exactly the time they would use it when the murder is the talk of the town.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Bailey said Sophie went up Ardmanagh road where she had parked her car.

    The Ardmanagh road bit was well known from the Sky film . The Centra car park is off Ardmanagh road, so Bailey probably assumed she had parked there to do her shopping.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    He caught himself by the balls with that statement, liars always catch themselves out.

    He knew his number was up after that was questioned in public and he had still had no contact from the Garda Cold Case Review Team.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's just another line of speculation, I think.

    There are too many open possibilities and no real evidence.



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