Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

To be fair, that's nothing to do with wether this referendum passes or not

Random anti trans conspiracies are nothing to do with the constitution or this referendum

Referendum on Gender equality?

So why delete any reference to one gender while keeping the other? Not very equal is it.

You are absolutely correct. The Constitution grants both women and men the right to fair paid and safe employment but doesn't oblige them to work.

Don't know how 45 changed to 95! I have a new phone and the predictive text has it's own mind it seems! I agree it's only a guide but it negates the constant claim that the Constitution obliges women to stay at home and that they do not have the choice to be where they want to be.

Just so we are clear - not part of the Constitution, essential or otherwise, which is why it was recommended that it could be deleted. The Constitution, which begins with Article 1, would remain intact, including the aforementioned Article 45 which is not an essential part of the Constitution, but it’s nice that it’s in there to guide the Oireachtas in regards to social policy.

That's an interesting point. As it stands at the moment stay at home mothers or fathers, where a spouse is in employment, can get SW credits but no money until their youngest is 12. After that they have to be available for work to sign on even if it's only for credits.

Single parents can receive the one parent family payment until their youngest is 7 without the requirement of being available for work. After that they have to be available for work to receive payment.

Don't know how the arbitrary age differences came about but both married and unmarried parents will have to be treated equally. I can't see them raising the one parent family age to 12 as they have gradually lowered it from 18 to 7.

I don’t care where you pick it up, I don’t need to because I can cite it from memory in both English and as Gaeilge, and I’m familiar with the history of it, and the Preamble isn’t part of it. The article I linked to which cites the committee, backs up the the fact that it is not part of the constitution, which they were asked to review, but they still wished to recommend that it be deleted anyway.

I’m also familiar with Dev’s “I carried a watermelon” moment:

I took out the phrase ‘without the distinction of sex’ and I make no apology for this’

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1412016/

And as for the idea that after the referendum that only men will be referenced, it’s already been pointed out that Article 45 remains, which IS part of the constitution, albeit not an essential part of the constitution:

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-women-in-home-referendum-erase-irish-constitution-6279204-Jan2024/

The amendment is an attempt to recognise the fact that it is not just woman by her life within the home giving to the State support without which the common good cannot be achieved, but rather there are men who do too, and not just in the home, but as a family, the support they give to each other, without which the common good cannot be achieved.

There were always men who by their life within the home gave to the State support without which the common good could not be achieved, but this was never previously acknowledged, because the Constitution was written with the intent of upholding traditional social structures such as the family based upon marriage between a man and a woman for the purposes of procreation. We know of course from history that the Constitution was not based upon the reality of Irish society at the time, rather it was based upon an idealised vision of Irish society.

The referendum was necessary, the problem is that the proposed amendments are still idealistic and aspirational in nature, still failing miserably to reflect the reality of Irish society.

No it won't. The courts regularly deal with inheritance and will disputes. The constitutional definition of family doesn't come into it.

How does that effect women in real life...

I'd suggest that you actually ask women what they think and get back to me

So then what's the benefit of the change?

What is the benefit of the change?

It does use male (he/his/him) pro-nouns though 😂

6 In every case in which the President decides that a Bill the subject of a petition under this Article does not contain a proposal of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained, he shall inform the Taoiseach and the Chairman of each House of the Oireachtas accordingly in writing under his hand and Seal, and such Bill shall be signed by the President not later than eleven days after the date on which the Bill shall have been deemed to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas and shall be duly promulgated by him as a law.

I’d urge you to make the time and go vote No then- it’s very important our voices are heard and not the far left demagogues pushing this stuff

Another feeling I have about this referendum is that it is for the good of Government finances, wokeness, and gender woo. I cannot see any positives. If someone can point them out to me I will take adequate note.

In the meantime I'm awaiting the Ref Commissions booklet on the pros and cons, which is obligatory now. Should make for an interesting read, and I hope it is not filled with obfuscation and wishy washy stuff.

I'm waiting to see what is said. But I am voting NO as of now unless I am persuaded and convinced otherwise which I doubt. That is because I just don't trust the Government on much at the moment. Railroading decisions regarding the siting of immigrant accommodation is one aspect that has the feeling of psychopathy about it. No consultation with anyone and we don't care at all what people think, we'll just call them Nazis or the more polite term Far Right to get our way. Just an example.

Nope. I'm wary of the reasoning behind it all, notwithstanding the recommendations of the Citizen Assembly. I'm not sure either that they are fully independent of Government sway on matters. But I am told that they most definitely are. I must look to see if the recommendations are fully covered in the referendum wording or not. But I'm jaded at the moment and can't be ar$ed tonight.

Cynicism and questioning are the tools I have, so if my questions are not answered in the booklet, it stays NOPE for me. But we'll see.

I didnt know the Communists were promoting this