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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    Are you insinuating that being in a physically different place destroys the logical part of ones brain?

    Maybe if you camped inside a sulphur mine for a few weeks it might allow you to see mass migration as a deliriously wonderful thing. Emphasis on the delirium.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    So, the first major political party to call the bluff of this is going to win in the eventual future.

    But most politicians are not looking to the 'eventual future', they're looking to the next election. That goes especially for politicians for whom the next GE is going to be their last, as is almost certainly the case for Micheal Martin and very probably for Leo Varadkar. And as things stand if all significant political parties more or less row in behind the current consensus on immigration, the likelihood is none of them will gain or lose massively on the issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    We have no political parties that will go against large scale immigration bar a couple of lunatics that few will ever vote for. If all parties are aligned on immigration then effectively it will not be a significant election issue. FFG will likely be in power after the next election, no matter how many are against their policies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    Well then predictability comes into play yet again.

    if these politicians form into a blancmange of supporting mass migration, ie the utter loss of mandate, then you'll have the exact results youd expect from an ever widening gulf between them and the people.

    Ballooning protest, violence, bloodshed and death.

    The strength of the reaction is measured against the stubbornness of the political class. We're certainly on the fringe of violence already, so let's see how far theyll push it.

    Regardless of the pain inflicted beforehand, the end point is the pushback against migration. Inevitability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    See my reply above.

    It either changes today less painfully, or it changes tomorrow more painfully.

    It's like trying to flap your arms to fly, gravity will win every time. The only point of interest is how long you persist looking like a fool.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    The government has one overriding mandate, and that is to its own people.

    With multiple capacity crises growing daily, a government should, and by all right, pick up the blower to these entities talking about other "obligations" and tell them straight: no more.

    If they have to play the pretend game of paying a fee for not accepting migrants (which is akin to a no-giraffe-in-your-house tax), so be it.

    Say it, renege on it. Push and incentivise those able to fix mass migration to fix it instead of prolonging this unsustainable situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    ou'll have the exact results youd expect from an ever widening gulf between them and the people.

    Ballooning protest, violence, bloodshed and death.


    melodramatic much?




  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    If I had told you that there would be an unprecedented population boom from abroad some years back, would I have been accused of melodramatics? Probably.

    If I had pointed out that mass migration will eventually all but wipeout housing stock in the country some years back, would I have been accused of melodramatics? Probably.

    If I had pointed out that there wont be enough nurses and guards et al to staff an unprecedented population increase from abroad some years ago (the reduction in staff tied at the hip to unaffordability), would I have been accused of melodramatics? Probably.

    If I had predicted that they would close nursing homes and repurpose student accommodation and take over 40% of hotel space to accommodate refugees in the face of deepening crises some years back, would I have been accused of melodramatics? Probably.

    If I had predicted a refugee crisis....

    If I had predicted protests...

    If I had predicted riots....

    If I had predicted buildings being burned to prevent more migrants...


    I'm missing a lot more besides. i saw a headline a few days ago about someone jumping out of a van with a chainsaw to attack the security of a proposed refugee centre in ballsbridge. I can't comment more as I didn't read into it.

    The overall point is that predicting the near future based on extremely wealthy information and intuitive reasoning is a walk in the park.

    So, no, none of this is melodramatic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Totally normal in the age of cheap air travel, increased income and the internet. The reason societies remained homogenous in the past (a past you were never a part of) is that travel was extremely expensive and difficult to take and the vast bulk of the population lived in relative poverty. In the 19th century, it took three months to sail from Ireland to Australia....an arduous and stressful journey for even the healthiest and fittest of people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    The mass migration of often times vastly different cultures into a small handful of countries is not normal, no.

    Its totally abnormal.

    Doubly so when those small few countries suffer from the very expected capacity crises caused by mass migration yet continue apace.

    The proposal of the idea alone is inceptionally stupid and about as normal as wearing a hat made of rashers.

    The only valid question is why such a moronic and self destructive concept could even be entertained. And the answer lies in the vast money made by the very few off the misery of the very many. It was ever thus.

    That said vested interests could instigate a propaganda campaign so effective that they could convince some people to wear rasher hats is only testament to the sheer greed itself.

    Totally abnormal.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    People are not just moving to Europe and a few other developed / rich countries such as the USA though. Asia has as many migrants in total as Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    It's still a totally hare brained concept, regardless.

    The likes of hong kong with its famous cage housing is an example of the utter stupidity and greed that lues beneath mass migration.

    Nobodys selling the idea of sleeping in a cage to anybody. But there are a few who are rubbing their hands knowing that they'll just force the situation in the back door.

    Everyone knows about the multiple bunkrooms in housing here already. 12 to a two bed apartment. Why not a cage, in time? All while some cheer on the very thing bringing those realities to fruition.

    Any country that facilitates mass migration, like ireland, is radically stupid. And for every radically stupid idea, there is a radically severe reaction, eventually.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    In the real world, what's driving the current furore over immigration, although anti-immigration activists don't tend to focus on this, is the number of Ukranians coming in. If that continues to fall away dramatically then most of the heat will drain out of the issue.

    The number of regular asylum applications to Ireland in 2022 was 13,651. Yes the highest ever but if that is the 'new normal' doesn't sound to me like the kind of influx that will trigger social armageddon in a wealthy country of 5 million plus people....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Of course not.

    I'm just trying to understand why we're repeatedly being told about the Muslim threat.

    It seems to be on the basis of the terrible treatment of women in some Muslim countries, and that there have been incidents of these types of crimes in Europe following migration.

    As I see it the same arguments hold true for Hinduism, yet they're not a threat?

    I'm trying to understand why, I don't know the figures but I believe we have comparable rates of Hindu immigrants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The Ukraine war is just one of many crises around the world.

    The way things are going in the middle east there is a significant chance we will have to take in more than a hundred thousand Palestinians in a very short period of time. Our goverment have already made it crystal clear we are front of the queue to take them if needed.

    The Ukraine war is not the war to end all wars. Our policy is our policy, there will always be vast numbers around the world aware of our policies and of course will try to use them as intended.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    No, what the ukrainian war did was merely accelerate the inevitable.

    You think we wouldnt be in the same situation within a few years even without the war? No chance.

    And what of the purported claim that we can "expect" 15k refugee migrants every year ad infinitum? And every other flavour of migrant?

    The ukrainian war was the equivalent of going to the hospital to have a rash checked out, only for it to reveal you've had skin cancer for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    But we aren't a wealthy country.

    Against peers, we're a bog standard average.

    Ever wonder how we have so little of everything despite being "wealthy"? Wonder no more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    Because if you can make people fearful for their safety it makes anti immigrant and anti muslim bigotry more acceptable

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    The reason you're not hearing about similar arguments for Hinduism is because we're not seeing the rise of Hinduism extremism across Europe the way we are with Islam



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Exactly. Go to London if you want to see actual wealth. Dublin in a 3 star city with 5 star delusions



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  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭abozzz


    When you adjust the corporation tax dodgers out of the equation, you go from gdp per capita of 100k to 40k.

    Which plonks us straight on the average of oecd.

    All of a sudden, the rapid cost increases and their toll on society becomes apparent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Sorry to quote you again but this whole post should surely show that any concerns about Islam are not baseless. If concerns were just down to racism, bigotry, hatred of immigrants and all the things that are claimed then you would surely hear those same arguments about Hinduism. But as you say yourself the same arguments are not being made about Hinduism



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Exactly.. and why we need to react quickly now to stop this rapidly expanding trend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    So we should be concerned about Muslim immigration because of terrorism, not because of treatment of women, or anything to do with Islam per se?

    Is that what you're saying? Because I'm not really sure what you mean by 'the rise of Islamic extremism'.

    Post edited by MegamanBoo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    It's a bit like shouting right wing racist arsonists when a crowd of concerned citizens are holding a protest outside THERE local hotel.

    I would class this as anti Irish bigotry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    What is to stop the minister making almost every country a "safe" country?

    Apart from the government funded NGO's mouthing off on RTE of course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Just watching the news and the Government might be waking up a bit by expanding the list of safe countries.

    And of course the Irish Refugee Council are whinging about it.

    Interesting to see South Africa is already on it so why is this Lucky whatever his name is still here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    There is a difference in having an opinion about a religion, or any religions, and trying to insinuate that all individual Muslim people are exactly the same. Many Muslims interpret their religion differently, much like Christianity.

    Attempting to make people afraid of a religion, and by doing that, attempting to make them afraid of people of that faith, is bigotry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader




This discussion has been closed.
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