Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

That's kind of embarrassing to be honest. It's not a nightmare. It's pure and utter laziness. At least be honest. You discount other options out of hand to demand parking outside the front door. Semple is a nice walk out from Thurles and Gaelic Grounds is a serious walk from Limerick City centre.

It's a GAA stadium though first and foremost. Municipal catch all stadiums rarely work in reality. Across the world the move is largely away from such facilties as the compromises are too great to keep everyone happy.

In the US there was a big drive for multi use stadiums in the 1960s and 1970s. Most have now been torn down and replaced with sport specific facilities.

Same in England. Very few municipal stadiums. Most recent one maybe is the Olympic stadium in London used by West Ham and also can be used for athletics. I've been there and large parts of the crowd are miles away from the action in football mode.

The dimensions needed for a GAA pitch versus rugby and football makes them not very compatible. The crowd in the Davin Stand here are a good 20-30m from the try line. Terrible viewing experience.

Aussie Rules and cricket have pretty much the same pitch dimensions. Soccer on those pitches is a terrible experience but it's very much a minority sport down under so they probably don't have much choice.

Look, Limerick and other Munster based fans aren't in favour of the games in PUC and only tolerate them to date as they have been exhibition games. Even then there was a lot of giving out about next week's game being in PUC from those quarters. Start putting Leinster or big European games there and there'll be a lot lot more grumbling. There's a lot of people who think like the other poster in this thread who reckon PUC is the most inaccessible stadium in the history of the world.

Even if they got 1 or 2 games a year from Munster in PUC it's not going to suddenly make the stadium financially viable. There's precious little else beside a few concerts here and there. What other events do people think would be down there? As a neutral venue it's been pretty much abandoned for Munster finals or All Ireland series games not involving Cork. The fact Clare got away with refusing to play there last year pretty much sealed its fate in that regard.

Shared stadiums are doable but it requires a perfect storm where multiple sports are equally as popular as each other.

In Limerick for instance the 4 big Irish sports have huge variations in support. In Cork I doubt that PuC would be full for rugby if they tried it beyond the odd novelty game.

Expecting to rock up and park wherever you want in a city is nonsense. It's certainly not the fault of Cork or PuC. I live near 2 stadiums and people like you can **** off as far as I am concerned. Coming around blocking roads,paths and wrecking green areas.

In other countries it's normal to get chartered buses to away games. Irish attitudes seem incapable of doing this or doing park and ride. Mostly because we have turned into an awful soft self entitled shower.

As for somewhere "decent to park" you could park in Cork city centre and walk or bus which has been pointed out.

Munster still have a large outstanding debt on Thomond and rely on season ticket sales. Moving any proper games to PUC would decimate season ticket sales and debts would be unserviceable. There aren't enough games to sell season tickets in PUC and most of the games don't need anything close to that capacity anyway. These one off games in PUC work for Munster but they won't use it beyond that.

There is nobody else to use the stadium so talk of opening for other uses is pointless.

You are arguing from two different POV's and keep switching. The original suggestion that was responded to was that a municipal 20k-30k all seater should have been built rather than the existing stadium. You scoffed at that and then asked what other use it could have. A municipal 20k-30k that could have been built in conjunction with a more modest Thomond upgrade to facilitate big Munster games could have hosted an number of extra games including:

Ulster, Leinster and Connacht (3 games)

Two home Champions Cup Games (2 games)

Ireland Under 20's 6 Nations (2-3 games)

Ireland Under 21 football Internationals (2 big games per year)

Thats 10 extra games per year that are repeatable and could be relied upon. You are looking at up to 6 sell outs every year there. On top of that you would have the opportunity to host:

URC knock out games

Champions Cup knock out games

European games for Cork City

Big league games for Cork City, for example from 2014 to 2018 the home Dundalk game would sell out weeks in advance, you could have easily gotten 15k at those games if the seats were available.

There are also wild card options like American college football which has been a huge success in the Aviva. On top of that the 20-30k all seater is a much more attractive concert venue than the current 45k mixed stands and terrace option. So you could have attracted more acts.

The second POV you are proposing; Thomond has been built so we can't use PUC for Munster games seems strange. I'm not sure what you are actually saying? You know Limerick people who wouldn't be happy so it can't/shouldn't be done? I know Cork people who aren't happy that every big game is in Limerick so therefor it should be done..... I go back to the point of attendance. 42k Munster fans, whether from Cork or elsewhere, are selling out PUC weeks in advance of friendly games. Thats the best bellwether for fan interest, not what some lad down the pub or on the Munsterfans forum is saying. Two games is all we have to go on and is far better that what 10 lads on forums or what one or two of your Limerick mates are saying.

There is rental fee of 100k for PUC for Munster according to the Examiner, so at a conservative 20e a ticket, Munster can make an extra 200k hosting a game in PUC vs Thomond. With one or two games per year in PUC you can also sell 8k season tickets for Cork, given that 3-4 games will be played in Musgrave and you have an attractive fixture or two that will sell out to go with it. Ireland 20's tickets as part of the package could also be looked at. There are loads of options if people don't take the defeatist "it can't be done" mindset. That would be a huge financial boom for Munster too, its a no brainer.

Again on your last point I don't know what you are proposing? It's dead so give up? Two rugby games per year won't solve every problem so don't do it? Whats your suggestion? Let it rot? Knock it down?

Why are you going on about what you think should have happened? A 20-30k all seater stadium wasn't built and wasn't proposed with any seriousness by any party so going on about that is a complete waste of time. I don't recall Munster proposing it at the time.

I still don't know what you're arguing about but going on about a fantasy 20k all seater stadium is bizarre given what's actually been built. And fantasy crowds of 15k for league of Ireland games is just that, fantasy. Even in the heydays that wouldn't have happened. You're arguing that Thomond Park should become the white elephant instead of PUC. A white elephant is still a white elephant.

Do you not agree that for GAA neutral games it is a dead duck? It got the 2 All Ireland quarter finals in hurling the year it opened in 2017 with pretty decent crowds but a lot of people were there for the novelty factor. In 2018 it got one of them and barely got 10k of a crowd. It's been pretty much written off since then as a neutral venue.

Maybe you're right and it should be knocked and replaced with a 20k venue but we all know that ain't going to happen.

That was the point you originally responded to.... If you think its a waste of time to discuss what should have been done, why engage with it?

You do know that the Aviva was sold out for the FAI Cup final this year? Cork City were selling out 8k capacity weeks in advance for certain league games. When you are selling out 8k weeks in advance, 15k isn't a fantasy, no matter how far away those games seem currently. If Cork City get back to the Premier division and sort their **** out there is the appetite for the odd event game where you get 15k. To suggest this is fantasy means you are out of touch with the post covid LOI.

I'm not arguing that Thomond Park should be a white elephant, something it currently is financially. I'm arguing that it should have had a far more modest and sustainable renovation that would have kept the capacity at about 12k but improved the facilities and it could still be used for most league games. Munster could have entered an agreement with Cork GAA to use the hypothetical 20-30k all seater for the bigger games I mentioned. That would have Munster in a position of no stadium debt and would triple to quadruple the use of PUC for games that get over 50% capacity. If you are switching back to the current situation, moving one or two big games won't make Thomond a white elephant from a usage perspective. There are 5 big games every year to go around at a minimum. Some years there can be up to 8 or 9. Having 1 to 2 games in PUC will actually help Munster with the Thomond debt given that 200k-300k extra can be earned at PUC vs Thomond.

PUC should never have been built with the idea that it would host neutral GAA games as part of its sustainability plan. These could never be relied upon. Its a venue for Cork GAA that needs buy in from other sports to exist as a financially sustainable entity. Something that the Cork GAA CEO openly admits:

2024 will see the return of rugby and concerts to the stadium as it seeks to fulfil a municipal agenda. Such high scale and indeed expensive physical assets simply must be utilised at every part possible opportunity and as we do not have access to a sufficient number of games in our own Association, we must look elsewhere at every opportunity. Yes, there may be sacrifices along the way in terms of scheduling, but all commercial opportunities must be strongly considered if we are to continue to financially support our teams in the manner required

Revealed: Páirc Uí Chaoimh to be renamed Supervalu Park in historic rights deal   

The FAI cup final is a once off event. That's hardly a benchmark to be fair. Yes there is heightened interest in the LOI at the moment which is great but it's also coinciding with Cork City being at their lowest ebb ever with not much on the horizon to inspire confidence on that front. Even if they were flying high it would be very weird to have 2 home stadiums for league games. A crowd of even 12-15k is lost down the Pairc. No atmosphere with fans miles from the pitch versus a rammed Turner's Cross with fans right on the sideline. I can't think of any city fan who'd want that in PUC. A big European game maybe (whenever they might happen again), but not league games. Whatever about Munster, Cork City have no business down the Pairc.

You're still going on about a fantasy 20-30k all seater stadium. It didn't happen so not sure what going on about it is trying to achieve.

The original discussion was you asking what could possibly be hosted in a hypothetical 20k-30k stadium that isn't GAA. Thats why I am saying what could be hosted there. The list is above. Yes the current stadium is absolutely not suitable for Cork City unlike the hypothetical 25k seater you took issue with, which would be much more suitable to one off games.

The current stadium should be used for 2 Munster games per year. Likely a rotating mix consisting of two of; a European Game, the Leinster home game, a touring team and possibly the Ulster game, depending on the given year. It would potentially look like:

2024 Feb Crusaders

2024 Nov NZ XV

2025 Sept Leinster

2025 Nov Argentina

2026 May Ulster

2026 Dec European home game

This would lose 3 games every 3 years for Thomond and would bring in about an extra 800k per year extra for Munster and about 200k per year to Cork GAA. This would neither make Thomond a white elephant or solve the financial issues in PUC but would make both Munster and Cork GAA better off.

No places open in Cork on a Sunday or Saturday. Are you joking? I'm now convinced you've never been to PUC.

I got the train up from Little Island which took 8 minutes and breezed past all the cars at a standstill sitting in Tivoli going nowhere. 212 bus another 10 minutes down to pretty much outside the door of the stadium. But yeah I'm the one wasting time 😂

And 38k at the Cork and Tipp game last year says otherwise with a big Tipp crowd. 👍

Nah it isn't. You just couldn't be bothered. As I said 8 minutes from Little Island to Kent. Even on a clear day with zero traffic you wouldn't do that in a car nevermind a big match day with complete traffic standstill. 10 minutes on the bus and no fooling around looking for a space. Easy as you like. Last year I met a few Tipp lads on the train up and they thought it was great. No fighting traffic, just a quick detour off the M8 to Little Island, and no messing with the tunnel or any of that.

You never answered the question about Croke Park.

Do you drive to Croke Park and park your car nearby?