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Friend gets the mortgage, but we both pay it back and own the house?

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  • 28-01-2024 3:32pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Hi,

    Would something like the title be possible? My friend is on a good salary, I'm self employed and could my share of a mortgage off, but not get approval for 50% of what would be needed to buy where we'd want.

    Is there any way we could both buy a house and be legal owners of it, having done so based on my friend getting the mortgage, and then we both pay back the same amount each month? I can put money towards the deposit too.

    Just looking to see if something like this would be possible? Would it just need a solicitor to draw up an agreement?

    Thanks!



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,760 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A bank is not going to give a mortgage for the full value to one person, when they're going to own half the house.

    So no.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,156 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    You would have to go in on the mortgage together, which would give you more protection should something happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Apart from having to be very careful about mortgages with friends, if he can get a mortgage on his own you can both get a joint mortgage. Full of drawbacks though



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Get married to eachother?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,043 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    You get a mortgage from him who gets a mortgage from the bank - and you pay him and he uses that to repay the bank each month.

    It's not really legal and he will own the house up until the mortgage is cleared and only then can he transfer ownership to you, and that would have its own cost also. If the mortgage is in his name he cannot give you the house.

    Also what if you repaid him for years and then you have a falling out and he keeps the house you mostly paid for! You would have no recourse



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,896 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I'd really avoid buying with mates,/siblings

    Alot of mine did during the tiger. It's all great until someone gets a significant other, who ends up semi moving in (it's half their house Afterall).

    Or one wants to sell but the other doesn't but can't afford to buy the other one out.

    Or a crash happens and you're stuck together because of negative equity.

    It can get very messy very quickly.

    I certainly wouldn't enter into a situation where I'm paying the mortgage but my name is not on the deeds.....they can easily say you were just renting a room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    You are the chap that moved into a rental then decided that the rent should be cheaper then you are suing your landlord. No way in hell would I trust you to buy a house with, to take a mortgage on pretense you will pay me half.

    You are very loose, you are happy today then tomorrow you feel hard done by because someone is earning better than you.

    You need a reality check and if your friend had any smarts won't do sort of deal with you.

    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    OP , read this post very carefully and understand what is being said. Not me but friends had quick flips during the celtic tiger made loads of fast cash.

    Others got screwed and in impossible situations and split families. Not unless ye are quick flipping at night or the weekend. I almost go into it with a buddy to buy a site in Cork. However he was well in over his head in negative equity (5 properties) and lost everything. He lost his properties marriage, friendships, mental heath suffered and nearly lost his cushy civil service job.

    Dont put yourself in this position. Look what is happening with interest rates in Florida and UK and how you would cope in a similar situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Society & the legal system put a degree of sectioning off in place that prevents this from happening.

    Lots of cheat systems around getting a mortgage and paying it off using income you have paid income tax on are blocked off in one way or another. You can imagine a situation where an employer builds a load of houses and after 15 years working there for a poor wage you get to own the house. It would seem like such an efficient way of doing things, however the tax man and the bank man both lose out big time in this situation hence it is very hard/impossible to do legally.

    Families also love falling out over houses. It's almost like they get a kick out of it. You might get on great with them but as soon as it's about houses they'll get their sharpest sword from the armoury and they'll be ready to fight you with it!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Op, given that you apparently already own a house and are thinking about going to the courts about a different house, I'd think maybe chucking a third house into the mix is probably not a great idea.

    /sarcasm



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    This, legally speaking, is the best way to share ownership of a house. In this age of equality, sham marriages are open to all!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Thanks for all the input!

    All those scenarios mentioned above certainly sound like it would be leaving it open to the possibility of trouble down the line and definitely worth taking note of!

    Out of interest, how would a joint mortgage work in such a scenario and what are the drawbacks? Are those drawbacks circumvented when it comes to a married couple?

    Also is the idea of getting a mortgage off them actually a thing? What about finding someone as a guarantor on a mortgage for myself, is that possible?

    That's a very obscure interpretation of my posts.

    Also to the other posters thinking I own a house, creating hypothetical scenarios to gauge performance of an investment from a property, does not mean I own the property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I think it's quite a normal intrepation of your thread about a rental property bought in 2011, and asking about yield, CGT etc.

    Maybe its not your property, however you never said it was not in reply to posts such as:

    "You have a very well performing investment and bought right at the bottom...."

    I was going to post on your thread about the rental issue that you should simply your life. However, you seem determined to complicate it further with this joint ownership but single mortgage application.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,110 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    It is possible but you need to have of all done through a solicitor



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Sorry the obscure interpretation was in relation to the other poster thinking we're suing the landlord and being happy one day and then feeling hard done by because someone is earning more.

    It's not obscure at all that one would assume a thread seeking information on performance of an investment, is their own investment.

    Unfortunately simply living life isn't so simple when you're at the mercy of an out of control rental market and exploring alternative options would be with a view to simplify things in the long run, but having taken on board the advice given, that doesn't seem so simple either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Toby22


    Hi, there is an article in Irish Times from yesterday, relating to Help to Buy scheme, which covers a lot of the issues in your proposed scenario



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Thanks @Toby22, I just had a read of it. I guess the case I describe is different in that my friend would qualify for a mortgage, but I wouldn't, but I'd be able to pay half the repayments back. If there was a way it could be done legally with protection for us both should things go wrong it could be worth looking in to, but the feedback in the thread seems it's got a lot of risk. At the same time, I don't see the risk as being too much higher than what so many people do and get a house with their partner when romantic relationships can so easily go pear shaped too 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The only way to do it is Person One buys and registers the house in their own name. Person One Agrees with Person Two by way of a written legal agreement that Person Tow will repay Person one 50% of the deposit and acquisition costs and contribute to the mortgage payments and will own the 50% of the equity (both positive) in the house. The like will apply to capital outlay on the house by way of repair or enhancement. In default of either Person One of Person Two making their full payments their equity will be limited pro rata with their contributions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Thanks @Claw Hammer, that sounds reasonable enough. Is there any reason why this would be any more risky than what so many people do and get married to someone and enter into similar arrangements with a house? There's always going to be the potential for a relationship to break down, maybe even more so than a friendship, but I don't see the same warnings given to couples planning to buy a house together as I do with friends thinking of buying a house together?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    That is where both names are on the mortgage and people do warn non-married couples of the dangers. Civil partnerships also can formalise the relationship along with the laws that confer ownership.

    If a couple live together for more than 2 years with only one person on the mortgage (even if bought before the relationship) the non named person has rights to ownership.

    If you buy with a friend and they get a partner who moves in and lives there for 2 years they now have rights to ownership of the property. It might not be your part of ownership but now you have 2 people who you own with and one of them might demand their share. I don't think any contract can change that



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    Thank you, sorry, by couple, are you referring to a married couple? So marrying gives someone who had no part to play in the acquisition of the property, rights to the property, and means the person they marry has to give up part of what they own, simply because they married this person? 😲 Can a prenuptial agreement override that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Absent of a properly drafted and legal agreement, you would (could/should) end up with an equitable interest in the house. Messy though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You do need to think about this carefully, though. Married couples and cohabiting conjugal couples who buy houses together are generally in it for the long haul. Even if they contemplate that they might sell this house in 3, 4, 5 years, that will likely be in the context of buying another house together.

    Whereas two friends may not be thinking this way, since there's an excellent chance that in the 3-5 year timeframe one or other of them will acquire a spouse or conjugal partner and so (a) won't wish to continue living in the shared house or (b) will wish to sell the shared house and embark on a shared purchase with their spouse/partner, or (c) both. So the likely timeframe for this investment is short to medium term, not long-term.

    This matters because, they way repayment mortgages work, virtually nothing is paid off the mortgage for the first 10 or more years. Virtually all of the monthly repayment goes on interest costs; almost nothing is paid off the capital. The capital outstanding reduces very, very slowly, and it takes many years before it reduces enough that the monthly interest on the outstanding loan starts to go down to any material degree. At that point more and more of the monthly repayment goes to reducing the capital and it gets repaid faster and faster.

    What this means is, in the early years, your mortgage payments are not building up any equity in the home. If you sell in the space of 3-5 years, despite you having made large monthly payments to the bank all that time, virtually the whole amount you borrowed is still outstanding. After you deduct the transactional costs of buying and selling - estate agents, lawyers, stamp duty; it adds up to quite a bit — you may well be in the red — unless the value of the house has risen in that time. Any equity you build up during this period comes entirely or almost entirely from house price inflation.

    Which is fine, if house prices have inflated. Which they don't always do. And, right now, when they are at historic highs relative to earnings, and when there is considerable political pressure to address housing costs, this might not be the best time to take a punt on continuing house price inflation.

    And that's the real danger here. You could enter into this arrangement with a friend, but its an arrangement that it can be awkward, inconvenient or expensive to get out of, and there's a high chance that in a realistic timeframe it won't yield any return.

    Of course, a married or conjugal couple face exactly the same risk, but they may have a different attitude to it, for two good reasons. First, their timeframe isn't 3-5 years; it's much longer. And, secondly, by marrying/coupling up they are committing to a shared financial future, and shared investment risk, anyway. They're putting their investment eggs in the basket in which they have already decided to put all their eggs anyway, so to speak.

    None of this is to say that two friends — or two siblings, say — shouldn't buy a house together. But they do need to appreciate that they are not a married/congugal couple, and the buy-a-house-on-mortgage model which was tailored for married couples isn't quite so well tailored to the investment objects, timeframes and attitudes to risk that they are likely to have. So they need to look at this very carefully, think dispassionately, and make decisions about whether they are comfortable with the downside risks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 lirjandoo


    What an excellent and helpful reply. Thank you very much! A lot to consider with all that, thanks again!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The mechanics of doing something are one thing, the advisability of doing it is another.



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