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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Remember Ciaràn, your ‘leader’ was prepared to fly for 14 hours just to cast a vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    Eamon is probably going to forge a deal to import a **** load of Brazilian beef to Ireland so he can cull Irish cattle and lead the world efforts in eliminating global warming😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,611 ✭✭✭quokula


    This is such utterly simplistic reductive nonsense.

    You're trying to compare the CO2 from one trip that is important for international relations and could have far outsized benefits for the economy, with an opposition to 8 million extra passengers going through Dublin Airport every year. This might be tough to understand, but 8 million is a larger number than 11. 11 passengers makes as good as no difference. 8 million passengers makes a pretty large difference. If you think they're in any way comparable then try buying 2 fewer coffees in the next month and with the savings you can buy yourself a nice mansion and a couple of Ferraris for the driveway.

    Nobody is stopping you or I from flying. They're just saying we probably shouldn't be looking to add millions of tonnes of extra CO2 into the air above what we currently do. That is in no way the same as saying we must completely withdraw our entire government from any kind of foreign engagement that might benefit the country and turn ourselves into North Korea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    Same reasoning always given for not focusing on pay cuts for the higher paid. Sure what's the point as there isn't enough of them to make a difference. Just hit the little guy again and again.

    Hopefully our green obsessed Govt representatives will leave no stone unturned while globe trotting to discourage tourism from these long haul locations. Time to show real leadership and take one for the global team



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Higher paid are giving 50% of wages to tax. Before you start on all the other taxes they have to pay.

    How much tax do you want on their wages till you would be happy?

    Example below, if you earn 1m in wages your take home pay is less than half. So what percentage will you be happy with to tax at?

    Salary

    € 1 000 000

    Income Tax

    - € 399 103

    PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance)

    - € 40 000

    USC (Universal Social Charge)

    - € 79 736

    Total tax

    - € 518 840

    Net pay

    * € 481 160



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah they missed their target, they're still hugely profitable

    BYD are mostly the same price as Tesla from what I can see like-for like, Atto 3 starts at 44k, same as model Y, seal starts at 41k same as model 3. BYD have introduced the dolphin now for 33k, soon to have a lower spec promised for €28k. Tesla are promising one for €23k so it's an interesting time ahead

    Shout out to MG who were the first discount EV brand of course!

    When it comes to second hand in a few years time I don't see BYD or MG holding their value as much as the established brands mind

    Regards the sale figures you quoted, BYD are only ahead when you include PHEV cars (they don't sell any in Europe but they do in Asia) when you only consider full battery Tesla are very slightly ahead



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,074 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    Eamon Ryan on the tonight show VM1. I think all of his 8 advisors are just tell him what he wants to hear.

    The guy has no idea how feel about what he is doing regarding people coming here with no ID and and all his other plans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    They would be wasting their time telling him anything he doesn`t want to hear.

    The CRU and Eirgrid spent years telling him we needed LNG and gas storage for our energy security and he just ignored them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Didn't think you would have an answer. "Tax the rich" they cry out. Should be more like "tax everyone but me"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    A bit of a spoilt child response. Not surprised really. Did I mention tax? The last sentence is a bit ironic😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Perfect logic.

    Now apply the same to our impact to global warming or even better - to our impact at reducing global co2 levels.

    I know, it is negligible, hardly even measurable. Therefore we can conclude that trying so hard make no sense anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Could not resist, it apply to a lot of what is going on. Make believe facts which are far from reality but constantly being peddled as the only way...




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    i understand what you mean but i don't entirely agree with all of it. The other guy is right in saying its always the little man who has to suffer. It's the same again with the new rvm scheme going live tomorrow where its pushed on the consumers again stuck footing the bill. But then i agree also that the typical cry of "taxing the rich" is'nt the answer either. i have had a few job opertunities to earn a much higher salary and have had to turn it down numerous times because of PAYE and how high some of the other taxes is that come with it. Earning more money should'nt always have such a high price tag along side it, because it discourages little earners into becoming big earners and creates a sort of glass ceiling or brick wall effect. Alot of people go to other counteries to continue in their careers because of it. Irelands tax system is just way too greedy and expensive to live in, especially towards working class people suffering the brunt end of it. Country has become way too expensive with very little to offer.

    i sometimes have big dreams of high earnings then feel very discouraged seeing how of it gets gobbled up by revenue and taxes. Even getting big money through other non-work related means is taxable, even inheritance and gifts are taxable its insane and its taking the piss.

    there were times i came into enough money to start up a businuess atleast twice its happened, but the costs is so off putting.

    My solution: They should'nt high paying jobs more per-say, but rather tax the big companys and businesses more INSTEAD. and as for work, instead of being taxed for earnings, it should be taxed for peformance. What i mean is if you have a cushy job where you're sitting on your hole in parliment or what have yah, or some cushy office job, tax them signifincently more than you would tax a manual labor worker as they're doing less physically demanding things. Call it something like "cushy job tax". How does that sound? the more cushy the job = the more tax paid on it.

    tldr - tax banks more, tax big businuesses more and big corportations. tax people with high paying cushy jobs more, tax middle class workers alot less. tax small start up businuesss less. remove gift and inheritence tax entirely, unless its people with insanely high wealth.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    i wish it were that easy, with them its always "do as we say, and not as we do". they don't taste their own medicine. They're hypocrites and want all the public doing this green initiate crap while they don't make any effort to at all. And big businuess is allowed to get away with it too simply because they pay some green or carbon tax or whatever. its bribery basically. having money should not allow a person to keep getting away with things they are not meant to be doing, or allowed to get away things, or to escape consequnce from doing things. Even with fines in court its the same. Consequnce should be a direct result of action and should be mandatory regardless of how much money one hands, one should simply not be allowed to buy their way out. Buinuesses continue polluting because they pay to be allowed that privledge. very unfair. country is too greedy and keeps taking money and looking for any excuse to take money and profit off of the problems rather than stopping the problems. same with sugar tax, dog poo waste fine/tax, and many other taxes. especially green taxes

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,738 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    No direct flights to Rio so The Green Leader would have to go via Paris.. and I would say that it will be him and a number of advisors, for example let's say 5 of them maybe his spouse will travel too? All in business class makes 54.53 metric tonnes of Co2 for their little jolly... All for a ceremonial visit to a country who couldn't give a F...ig roll about St. Patrick's day, any actual business meetings are all done by Video conferencing anyway..

    And with all 20 government ministers travelling all over the globe by 1st/business class and their advisors then the carbon emissions could add up to 1,00 metric tonnes of additional carbon emissions..



  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Robert Nairac


    Green policies in this country are utterly pointless and don't have a material effect on anything other than making people worse off. It's a dogma and religion for the left.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    My point is high earners pay more than 50% of their wages in tax. So if people want to tax them more what percentage of their wages do they want to take off them? its usually a flippant comment and people have no understanding of the current tax system


    In terms of taxing the companies more, well then the companies will move away and you are left with people unemployed, high earners or not. Then you have a knock on affect of the tax of all the people working in those companies but as I posted before the knock on in the area is huge with job losses. Like Dell in Limerick when all the jobs got lost in Dell, but the canteen staff etc....plus I think the number was 2,000 eggs per day suddenly no longer needed so the farmers get hit. It;s a huge affect across all the area.

    Who has a high paying cushy job?

    Why should someone work their entire life, try to leave a little bit of money to kids and then get hit with loads of tax on it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    So much i agree and disagree with in this, regarding the first part it really depends on how much they're making, but yes there should be a cut-off point percentage wise, and then there should be a flat extra charge on top. But it does feel unfair to keep taxing people earning big money. it really depends on what job it is and what they're doing i feel. so i feel both ways on this. percentage wise i can't give a number because there's much more to it.

    Regarding the second part that was my intention, so many companies come here to ireland to set up a base and just use ireland as a tax haven, this is clearly for a reason, not just for them i mean but for the country intentionally doing this too. My point is: why does'nt ireland be greedy towards those who deserve it, like these for example INSTEAD of taking off of the working class man and taking the food out of his mouth? ireland are greedy towards the wrong people! many people get jobs and eventually leave ireland to continue their work because of it, so the point you're making about "losing jobs" via companies leaving ireland, benefits in the way of irish people who are entering the work force and pursuing certain careers without them having to leave. its being pro getting a job, and anti big corprorations coming over and creating jobs. like seriously only tax those who deserve it. Country feels more self serving than serving its people. Theres so many videos on youtube about this dark side of ireland.

    you talk about job losses from big corps moving out and not having a reason to stay if taxes are pushed to them instead of the worker like i propose, however they're not the gate keepers of jobs. if ireland was so great and actually supported the little man instead of big corp, then instead of relying from overseas corps to come to ireland to create jobs, ireland would be able to create jobs itself. The fact that some oversea businuess is able to come to ireland, set up shop, and create jobs shoud'nt be some sort of barganning chip for ireland or irish people, anyone can do that anywhere, they choose ireland obviously because its a tax haven for them. Why does ireland need to rely on these coming over and setting up shop? it really shouldnt at all. in a way its like betraying ones own country and selling out. its really self serving is all it is. So what if they create jobs?

    "Why should someone work their entire life, try to leave a little bit of money to kids and then get hit with loads of tax on it?" exactly, i'm saying the oppsite of that. get rid of inheritence tax and gift tax my last comment said.

    "Who has a high paying cushy job?" majority of government and revenue and politicians and irish tv, and anyone else who can have a single dinner costing over 1000 comfortably and insane lavage weddings etc. snobs and the like lol. people that have jobs sitting on their hole im also reffering to. not saying that all of what i just listed sit on their hole. im just saying they're not breaking their back more so should be taxed not just based on earnings but in general based on that

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    exactly, its government being greedy and simply just profitting off of the problem. Theey're profitting off polution.

    They see a problem and ask themself how can we profit off of this problem but try to make it look like we're helping and actually doing something about it? cool lets tax it then, another source of revenue for us yay!

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ireland is not a "tax haven". We adhere to the corporate tax rates. The loop hole which was many years ago, probably 10 now, was closed years ago and even before the US dictated to us what our tax rate should be it was closed and companies paid the corporate tax they are supposed to pay

    Who is going to hire thousands and thousands of people if Big Corp move out? plus what industry are they moving into?

    So the high paying cushy jobs are government and TV, so thats what about 0.01% of the working population to give a guess.

    Who is having a dinner for 1,000?

    A wedding can be described as lavish and still be low cost. So who says what is or isn't? do we just tax people based on what sort of wedding they had?

    I posted above "tax everyone but me", this is a good example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Gussoe


    Does anybody else find they have to burn more of the Smokeless Coal to get a similar heat output to regular coal?

    Have to wonder how that stacks up regarding emissions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Taxation is such a wide and varied subject it`s very much like a rabbit warren in the number of holes you can go down.

    I do realise that there has been a major drop off on posters here defending green policies, but green policies are the basis of this thread. There are many threads on this forum dealing with taxation in general so really should the discussion here not be in line with the thread title as to what taxation is due to green policies, who pays, where this taxation goes and to who benifits and who does not from government spending of such taxes ?

    Someone posted earlier that corporations will just simply up sticks and move if you increase corporation tax to a level which make other locations more attractive. This does not hold true for just corporation tax, it is also true for energy costs and reliability where corporations and companies are now moving because of. Germany being just one example. Here we had the IDA recently saying that now they are being questioned on the future reliabily of our energy supply when attempting to entice multi-nationals to set up here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Trouble is time and time again Green taxes get put in place but many people have no choice but to swallow the extra costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I agree, but imho those are the taxes that are much more appropriate under the thread title for discussion than the side-tracks of taxes in general.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    i'm not sure if you're misunderstanding what i'm saying, or intentionally twisting things.

    There are many cushy jobs, i only listed like 3 examples of high paying jobs. Essentially i said twice now they should be taxed not because of making lots of mmoney (your argument which i agreed with) but then added, it should be based off of who is sitting on their hole and who is'nt. Call it a cushy tax.

    as for big corp moving out, i'll leave you with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrPU3eHeimA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmem7Epk8E

    i have no issue with the people who are genuinely working for their money, and being paid a fair rate. my previous previous reply was in favor of them and taxing them less, as they're breaking their back to make ends meet. i would never dream or imagine taking the food from their mouth.

    i never said tax everyone but me, i say tax only everyone who deserves it. People who break their back to put food on the table don't deserve it. new start up businuesses don't deserve it. How can a country legitmately grow its own economy when its so hard to start out? tax the gate keepers!

    the lavish wedding comment is about politicians and other people in high paying government jobs who i'm not going to name, who are being paid directly out of the tax payers pockets to brag about having million euro weddings or 1000 euro dinners, and laugh at it all, have get craic while the country goes to crap. Those are the people i'm saying should be taxed. the ones with cushy jobs who never had to work hard for anything a day in their life. or making insanely unfair large amounts of money for little to no actual work at all. tax those! if they're actually doing something for that money other than being a name and number, then fair enough, but if they're just another bum on seats there to do nothing but give the illusion of doing something, tax the arse off them.

    i supported your initial comment, don't tax everyone rich, however i add to that only tax those who deserve it, and who do nothing to get it fairly. if a person can eat 1000 euro dinners each week, they can afford to be taxed! thats all im saying. if they can afford €1000 dinner, they can't complain really. so why protect them?

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    good! get them out anyway! big corps are poluting the country with their industrial crap. Green policies which allow them to continue destroying and polluting the country, are also a big part to blame for allowing it. its basically bribary and a country selling itself out in return for profit. Greed

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    It's utter rubbish compared to the old stuff which produced great heat. Like most of the green agenda, it's get rid of the old reliable without an equivalent replacement......



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