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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    I think the reason she wasn't charged with wasting garda time is because it was the gardai who forced her into all these rubbish sightings and supposed threats from Bailey. And the local gardai therefore were hardly going to arrest her for wasting their time.

    In any cold case review, her evidence needs to be wiped, and she needs to be completely ignored.

    But agreed she should have faced charges. She made the charging of any suspect or bringing them to court very difficult.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    You seem to think people can't be linked to murders or charged based on circumstantial evidence alone. Can you think of any case in Ireland where the murderer was convicted almost entirely on circumstantial evidence, with very little hard or forensic evidence to link them to the actual murder?

    Regards could have, nit picking much?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Graham Dwyer and Joe O'Reilly cases were entirely circumstantial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Can you think of another case, ever, globally, were a man got out of bed, trekked three miles, to the house of a woman who he did not know and who was onle ever in the house a few days every year, tried it on with her and when rejected beat her to death before trekking home another three miles in the dark, and resuming normal life.

    And managing to do so without leaving the slightest forensic trace on the victim, at the scene, on his person or in his home?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Can you think of any other case where the self proclaimed chief suspect for a murder admitted he did it to different people on 3 different occasions?

    Oh yeah, and changed his story for the night of the murder leaving himself with no alibi.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    No two murders are the same.

    He was hardly going to show up and murder her in broad daylight now was he? If he did that, we wouldn't be here talking about the case.

    Again I will ask can you name another case in Ireland recently where someone was convicted of murder based on no forensic evidence? You seem to think people can't be convicted without forensic evidence. You're mistaken in that belief.

    A quick google should help you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No,

    Because murderers, do not advertise their guilt.

    He made no such admissions. He attempted some ill advised black humour which the Gardai susequently tried to manipulate.

    He didn't change his story. He corrected his statement having been reminded. 7 weeks is a long time.

    No knowledge of the victim, no evidence linking him to the crime, no evidence linking him to the scene and no motive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Murderers have been well known to brag and boast about their guilt, some even get tattoos on their face to boast about it in case they don't get the opportunity to talk to strangers.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I never said that.

    What I said was that there is no evidence that Bailey knew Sophie

    There is no evidence that he was at the scene.

    There is no evidence that he had physical contact with her.

    He had no motive.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Merely the exception that proves the rule.

    No evidence whatsoever linking Bailey with Sophie or the crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    Unfortunately , all across the globe there are many cases of men killing women they hardly know because they have been rejected by them. I came across an article on these ‘rejection’ killings in India that I thought was interesting (and profoundly sad)… On 3 December 2016, a 22-year-old dancer was shot dead at a wedding in Maur, Bathinda, after a guest shot her because she was unwilling to dance with him. Her husband said: “The men, four-five in number, were making advances towards the girls on the stage, and when we stopped them from climbing the stage, one of them fired the shot directly into the head of my wife,”

    The accused, the groom’s friend, was drunk and wanted to dance on the stage with Kaur’s troupe. When he was refused that, he opened fire. Police arrested the prime suspect and three others. However, the reporting of the case passed this off as an accidental shooting or celebratory firing gone awry till some media outlets pointed out the discrepancy.

    In another case, on April 29, 1999Jessica Lall, a bartender at Tamarind Court, was shot dead by Manu Sharma, after she refused him a drink as he was already inebriated. Manu Sharma and the other accused were initially acquitted by a lower court after eyewitnesses, including actor Shayan Munshi, turned hostile in the case. There was a huge outrage over their acquittal, following which the Delhi High Court reopened the case and sentenced Manu Sharma to life imprisonment.

    Per media report: “Both these cases involve men who somehow felt entitled to do whatever they wanted and the frustration of rejection turned them violent. Their victims were hardly known to them but that did not stop them”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    In relation to forensic evidence, there were two other murders in Ireland over that 24 hr period, I think one in Dublin and the other in meath, there was only one state pathologist Dr Harrison, he choose to attend the other two scenes first as they were close and left SDP last because it was so far away from Dublin and that delay did not help in terms of external forensic evidence. That was unfortunate as the loss of potential evidence may have been very costly with the way things turned out. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.



  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭CuriousCal


    I believe if you look more into this “witness” and her husband, when you actually look into them both it’s eye opening the lives they had!!

    he has a history of violence and she’s a conwoman wanted for benefit fraud etc and when you read the gsoc report she made a small fortune from her newspaper stories



  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭I told ya


    Can't say I heard of the two other cases. Any link, reference?

    The reason I ask is that it was reported that Harbison was contacted around lunch time, it was his birthday and he was out for lunch. May have had a glass or two and would not be able to drive.

    He gave instructions which, apparently, were not carried out.

    Or maybe that's not what happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    The crime scene was contaminated by multiple people over the course of the morning including I believe Bailey himself who trekked up to the house and apparantly looked in the window.

    How on earth could he forget he (allegedly) wrote a story for the Sunday Tribune on the night of the murder? It makes no sense. If he could forget that, what else could he blank out? Maybe he just blanked out everything. Wouldn't be the first time.

    No knowledge of the victim, that's complete nonsense. You can argue how well he knew her, but to argue he didn't know of her at all is rubbish.

    Black humour? Designed to confuse and disarm. Largely worked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Impossible, even if he worked through the night. He would have had a 5 hour journey on Monday morning, meant leaving Dublin at 5 or 6 in the morning!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Apparantly motiveless crimes where the victim and perpetrator did not know each other are very common both in Ireland and elsewhere.

    Randomer violence after drink taken is one of the most common causes of crime related deaths or serious injury in Ireland today. There are cases in the newspaper almost every day of the week.

    So to say a person never attacked a stranger in Ireland after drink was taken is simply not true. It happens all the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This isn't randomer violence as you have described. This is someone leaving their house, walking 4kms out of their way in the middle of the night, knocking on the door of a stranger - apparently not with intent to rape or assault in mind, given there was no evidence of that.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 facebeard


    Was it 4km by road or 4km cutting through fields?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not with intent to rape or sexually assault in mind - zero evidence found of any such sexual element.

    And in the Garda narrative Bailey went up there without any plan in mind to assault Sophie - but to make a pass or try to impress her. Things got out of control and led to an assault.

    And I find the claim Bailey had some mad / drunken impulse to go there and attack her to not be credible. The long walk on a cold night and the lack of trace of Bailey at the scene does not suggest someone out of their mind.

    So no evidence Bailey went there with such an *intent* to rape or assault.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    The Bailey fan club all seem to think it's not him because he couldn't have walked the 6km to and back from the studio to Sophies house.

    It's a ridiculous suggestion to believe and a very weak arguement to be putting forward and quickly becoming the only line of defence.

    Furthermore, who is to say he didn't drive to the house or near to the house?

    Oh yeah, the other couple of people who were all probably langers drunk and out of their heads on God knows what after being out all night didn't hear the car pull off or arrive back or didn't notice it missing when they came back at all hours of the night. FFS, get a grip.

    Who's to say he didn't hop on a bike and cycle over there? Even now 27 years later, people don't bother to lock their bikes in deep rural Ireland.

    The Cold Case Review Team are still putting the work into solving this case and when they are finished they will be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Bailey, the scumbag, was responsible.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Its not a long walk though. Its a couple of miles, thats if he walked it, theres a small possibility of a car being involved. Some people would have you believe it was the other side of Cork!

    Regards someone turning up in the middle of the night, you are arguing against the facts here. Someone obviously turned up late at night/early morning looking for something. That's not in doubt.

    As for other suspects, most if not all have been ruled out for one reason or another, eg proveable alibis, physical frailty, lack of evidence including circumstantial evidence.

    This then leaves a suspect with no known or clear motive. I believe it was Gregor who argued earlier and you have said similar that Bailey had no known motive. Funny that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 facebeard


    That's a fair aul walk to and from, then carry out a brutal murder. Be up again at 10am after a heavy session and go about the day he was meant to have. I suppose he could have been running on Adrenaline.

    I just started listening to the West Cork podcasts and one of the Gardai at the scene mentioned Bailey was acting stranger than when he had previously turned up a few months before as a Journalist to look into another death in the area (case of suicide). That time he was more relaxed and asked more questions. Not sure if I believe any of the Gardai on this case though, but an observation all the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06



    It is a long enough walk if you are supposed to be seized by a mad violent drunken impulse. Its a long walk for 3am in the middle of a December night.

    The car Bailey has access to was checked and no evidence of forensics linked to the crime. No report of deep cleaning happening. No report from anyone in the house hearing the car move or noticing it was gone.

    The only report of a car is at 730am and iirc was not the same model as Baileys.

    Just because Bailey didnt go there with malign intent doesnt mean others didnt. So how am I arguing against the facts? Your claim is illogical.

    And theres a world of difference between somebody turning up at 4am versus 8am or 9am. You well know 4am is a bizarre time to turn up unannounced looking for a fling with someone who hardly knows you if at all.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Rosie has cracked it, he was on a bike. Keep up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If Bailey could have used a bike so could anyone! This widens the radius of possible suspects.

    Dont fancy Baileys chances trying to cycle after all that booze in that black coat.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    You keep saying he turned up for a fling.

    You appear to be arguing with the garda version of events, not mine.

    Secondly you have absolutely no clue what happened on the night.

    Thirdly there is no motive that points to anyone else. Arguments over the opening or closing of a gate are not a credible motive, nor is the motive you suggested where the mistress bumps off Sophie for some gain using a hitman with a rock and block.

    Do you at least accept the murderer was living in the area with a good knowledge of the area?



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