Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Brexit has definitely ended the idea of anyone else leaving.

Orban cries and moans but his no intention of going, the Polish were the same for years. The previously anti EU are in power in Italy and no movement from them either (Meloni's backtracking on the EU and immigration has been astounding)

Brexit isn't over though because this latest UK agreement only lasts until someone tries to diverge from current standards.

Makes you think.

Sounds like shte to people who actually think about it though.

• On Directives: yeah sure, the U.K. is no longer in the EU. It only approves ~80 Directives per year mind, so the number quoted there is typical nonsense. However you need to look beyond the fact of simply "dodging" EU law. Sure there is the sovereign argument for preferring to not be subject to such law (even though the U.K. had more than a proportional influence on the shaping of such laws) but this is only something beneficial if you can explain how the divergence is better? How does Business dodging Environmental, Social and Governance reporting help the average British citizen, for example?
• On Trade deals: you can find information on the EU's trade deal efforts here: EU Trade agreements (europa.eu). To say there have been "zero" additional trade deals is manifestly false. Not that this stuff really matters anyway. Removing tariffs to trade from far flung economies doesn't move the needle on this stuff overall. Tariffs represent a small portion of the cost of trading across markets. Paperwork, geography, freedom of movement, equivalent standards: the Brexit idea of replacing a large immediate market by cobbling together trade deals with much smaller far flung markets is a nonsense
• On relative economic performance: and this nonsense is in the most recent actual data: GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk). The eurozone has been growing more than the U.K. and that is forecast to continue. On Brexit specifically, you can find recent research estimating a 2 - 3% GDP reduction compared to a scenario where the U.K. retained membership: Revisiting the Effect of Brexit - NIESR

These claims are all easily googled salonfire, using reputable sources or primary data from the EU / U.K. directly. If you are accepting statements made by JRM absent of supporting data then it is YOU who is not "thinking".

The EU has very little need to do any additional trade deals, given the huge number it has in place.

It's not desperate, like the UK is. But please point us to any trade deals the UK has done which actually advantage it compared to continuing in the EU

If they were adding new input to the discussion that would be something, but it's the same scutter from the same posters presenting debunked tropes as new inputs.

As breazy said when a thread has a new update the expectation is new information, but too often it's pages of the same rebuttals of the same lounge lizard scutter.

I really only bother with this thread because the topic is still the largest geopolitical realignment for our country since the Whitaker reforms.

I can see both sides of the 'should people be allowed to post untruths' argument, but I must say I lean towards the idea that allowing people to pop up and repeat previously disproven drivel is a net negative. You shouldn't be allowed to post along the lines of Britain doing better economically post Brexit, because it is disproven by available economic data. You also shouldn't be allowed to say that it's doing better than the Eurozone. There is an objective truth that disproves such ideas. It would be like someone coming back periodically into the Geography forum and arguing that the earth is flat, despite them being disproven each time with pictures of the earth from space.

Arguing for Brexit benefits like reduced immigration, law making and global trade deals are a different category because, while those arguments are meritless on balance, it does require a bit more explaining of the point. Only a bit though.

The risk that is run by allowing people to pop up and misrepresent data or post outright lies is it creates an appearance of those core ideas being in dispute. They are not. You can *want* Brexit to have been good economically or you can *feel* it is better to "take back control" but reality is discordant with those ends. We live in a real world and certain things are just so.

Of what?

Ireland represents around 1% of the EU in population size - you're getting slightly carried away there.

Ireland is robbing nothing from the EU via its low corp tax, any country is free to apply the same and compete on a similar basis.

We have high personal taxes here as a result,.so if anything,.Ireland is robbing from its own citizens to pay for its low corp tax rate.

Only lazy thinkers will blame the EU for this countries current woes, which are housing, taxation and poor local services, all of which are the result of our own governments doing, not the EU.

We have rip off, extortionate rent, unnafordable childcare costs, and sky high housing costs, all due to government policy, not the EU, or immigrants, which irexit types prefer to point the finger at.

Our young generation have no future in this country if they wish to house themselves, raise kids and save for retirement. Their choice is, similar to that we had in the 80's, emigrate of face a life of debt. But that again is our governments fault, no one else's, just the government that we keep electing.

A government that treats us more like economic units than citizens, the government is simply the HR and finance departments of Ireland Inc!!

From the language they use around the Rwanda bill all they have left from the Brexit project is the notion that they must be free to apply laws free of any other country, which is counterproductive as every trade deal requires an arbitrator and a legal mechanism for counter claims betwixt signatories.

So essentially they're still talking about deals with other countries while simultaneously stating they won't be bound by the deals they make. They talk as if the world doesn't hear them say they'll welch on every deal they make.