Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

Based on?

So FF will join with SF who are the most disruptive party in terms of overseas? a party that is against Europe one minute and no idea the next...why would they join up with them is political disruption overseas? it would be the worst thing possible for Ireland. Especially when you consider SF and the fear the MNC have over their unrealistic policies?

Remember SF was the party shouting about grabbing the Apple money which was never Irelands

I know plenty of FF members who want nothing to do with the idea of a coalition with SF. Including most of my in-laws.

They associate SF with murder, torture, crime and sectarianism. Kids being blown to pieces when out shopping for a birthday present. Maria Cahill. Le Mons and Kingsmill, Paul Quinn.

It doesn't matter, you will get drawn into the usual 100 posts of nonsense. FF members want nothing to do with SF, because of what you listed and because of the online army and abuse for years now. Why no party wants anything to do with SF, apart maybe for PBP

Absolutely this.

You'd think FF was some kind of puritanical holier than thou outfit to listen to some.

The original and best purveyors of sleeveen 'say one thing/do the other' politics in this country have not gone away.

Deflection from the point made.

I stated a fact about FF not an ‘accusation’.

I wouldn’t have voted for SF until they evolved from what they were same as I wouldn’t have voted for FG when they were flirting with fascism or FF under Dev etc.

Parties evolve ideologically that’s more than evident with the political parties in this country.

At one time or another I have voted for most of them knowing what they are an were. I can no longer vote for FF or FG because of what they have evolved into.

Sure they'll moan and play up on the higher moral ground for a while but remember FF done a deal with FG.

They will do whatever it takes if it comes to it.

That's their history.

Looks like going into C/S or coalition with FG will finish them more or less too. From a polling high of 33% now down to 17%.

Where is the floor for them if they continue?

I think a lot of FFers will be aware they need to do something different and that will come into play if the GE returns similar results.

Party's evolve.

This isn't the 50's with staunch diehard FFers and FGers.

People switch their votes and I have in GE's voted for all the major party's at one time or another.

I am no more responsible for FG's flirtations with fascism if I vote for them today than I am for whatever SF did in their past if I vote for them.

I very much examine who the party are now before voting for them.

As I say, party's evolve and FF have evolved into a party indistinguishable from FG,

Will FF continue on that road?

IMO they won't without huge internal rifts.

I think you'll find I said, I am not responsible for these political party's past.

The point being, I knew about FG's flirtation when I voted for them in 2011 and 16, I knew about SF's flirtation with Marxism in the past when I voted for them in 2020.

@pureza seems to be suggesting that political party's which by their nature evolve should be held responsible for all time for their past, if we did that, there would be no-one to vote for.

Francie is right, parties do evolve. There is nobody in Fine Gael with any close association with fascism, there hasn't been for decades, in fact, they have elected a Jewish TD in recent times. However, with Sinn Fein, the subject of this thread, there are continued associations with violent republicanism, both in terms of personalities who were involved in terrorism like Gerry Kelly and Dessie Ellis, but also in their committed support for violent republicanism, something they refuse to repudiate.

To put it a different way, if you asked a modern-day FGer whether Eoin O'Duffy was right, 100% would tell you he was wrong, whereas if you asked a modern-day Shinner about the PIRA, they would tell you there was "no alternative", maintaining a support for political violence and the murdering of women and children, kneecapping of teenagers, and the kidnapping of mothers. That is a big difference that no SF mouthpiece can avoid.

What connections to violent republicanism do these two still have?

And where have FG and FF repudiated the violence of their forebears?

What you are of course wilfully missing in your analysis is the existence and signing of the GFA which has within it a commitment to democratic politics.

Nowhere within that document was a ceiling set if groups did not 'repudiate' their past actions.

Why?

Because no group has ever been asked to do that, neither the British, FF FG SF DUP etc etc.

Again, parties evolve and SF have, just like FG and FF have.

They have fulfilled their commitments to democratic politics and therefore are entitled to be voted for just like any other party's with violent pasts on this island.

I mean, how absurd is it to try and claim that Dessie Ellis or Gerry Kelly have no links to violent republicanism. They bombed and killed and maimed innocent people, they have not apologised, they have not atoned, and they are still defended by the leaders of SF who claim that there was no alternative to blowing up children in Warrington.

It's close to 100 years now. But SF supporter fire it up daily as if it is relevant.

Sinn Fein and the association with organised crime was a few months ago and we are told by the same supporters to forget about that, with the party leader lying about her involvement in it

Now if someone can explain that Im all ears.

They haven't gone away, you know. That's what one man said.