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Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2024 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

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13567…26

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    #62
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692517#Comment_121692517

    Yeah manufacturers support details are perfectly fine (or the designated support company)



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    #63
    KingPanko
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭KingPanko


    Good advice @HotSwap, thank you


    I rang Huawei, basically the inverter can take 25KW from storage but the BMS of the Luna2000-15-SO will only give the inverter 5KW per BMS, peaking to 7KW for a few seconds. Therefore to get a sustained 25KW one would need 5 different battery BMS. I don't need 25KW sustained discharge but like to understand the capability of the system, I have to say that the installer was misleading telling me I'd have 25KW discharge with this inverter.



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    #64
    HotSwap
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693699#Comment_121693699

    5kW per bms if the BMS has at least 2 x 5kWh modules. If you have a BMS with just one 5kWh module it can’t do the full 5kW discharge rate.

    do you know do you still daisy chain the BMSs into the inverter for this? I’ll have a look at the install guide.

    yeah, I really don’t believe anything I’m told by a sales person. Always double check. He might not of been doing it in an attempt to mislead you; it might have been his own lack of knowledge he was showing.



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    #65
    HotSwap
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693699#Comment_121693699
    https://ske-solar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/UserManual_SUN2000-12-25K-MB0_V04_2023-11-02_EN.pdf


    doesn't really go into a lot of detail.

    it does have two sets of battery inputs though. Which my 6kWh unit and 10kWh 3 phase unit only have 1.

    how much storage are you aiming for?

    If you got 2xbms with three modules each you would be getting 10kw (14kw peak) and have 30KWh of storage.

    would that work for you?



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    #66
    KingPanko
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭KingPanko



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693882#Comment_121693882

    We will give the installer the benefit of the doubt and say that he was mistaken after a quick glance at the datasheet, the moral of the story is try to understand the technology yourself rather belief what a salesperson tells you. I am also finding it very interesting so happy to be reading these things and learning new things.


    As I understand it yes you can still daisy chain the BMSs into the inverter up to a certain level, I must check what that level is.


    Day 1 I am planning for 30KWH storage but may increase it in the future, if I get a smart meter I would increase it to avoid the peak tarriffs (they are currently not installing smart meters for 3phase supply as far as I know)


    I have not been given any better options to Huawei (multiply installers including ones who offer all brands are pushing them for 3 phase commercial usage, saying that they are the best) so assuming that I stick with them, I will either do 2 BMS with 15KWH each or 3 BMS with 10KWH each so that I could discharge faster and add more capacity in a year or so without too much cost. A constant discharge of 15KW with some spikes over it would cover a lot of my usage in the evening.



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    #67
    HotSwap
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695321#Comment_121695321

    Nice. Would love to see that 3 BMS setup actually deliver the 15kw as promised.

    Is your supplier sure he can get hold of that new mb0 version of the inverter? Seems brand new and not listed with any Irish supplier I have checked.

    only last thing to mention if I didn’t already was ask about the new 7kwh Luna battery modules. There is not any concrete date when they will be available. But it’s going to be soon.



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    #68
    markkelly9999
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭markkelly9999


    Newbie question here. I have a farmhouse, beef farm and an airbnb in Ireland. We use about 8500kWh per year. Im looking at installing 18 panels on a large south facing farm shed that would provide electricity for the farm, farmhouse and airbnb cottage. I will be applying for the TAMs grant rather than the domestic grant. With TAMs, I cannot export back to the grid.


    All these quotes include labour at €2,500.


    I got 3 quotes for solar panels:

    Option 1

    Solar PV System

    18 x 410w Longi Panels or 410w TW Solar Panel

    1 x 5kw Solis String Inverter

    1 x 5kw Wecco Battery

    All Rails, Screws and Clips for all installation

    Cost: €12,450.00

    Labour: €2,500

    VAT @ 23%. €2,863.50 on €12,450.00

    VAT @ 13.5% €337.50 on €2,500.00

    Total: €18,151.00


    Option 2

    Solar PV System NO Battery

    18 x 410w Longi Panels or 410w TW Solar Panel

    1 x 5kw Solis String Inverter

    N.B. Can Add Battery Later

    All Rails, Screws and Clips for all installation

    Cost: €11,000.00

    Labour: €2,500

    VAT @ 23% €2,530.00 on €11,000.00

    VAT @ 13.5% €337.50 on €2,500.00

    Total: €16,367.50



    Option 3

    18 Jinko Tier One, N Type 435 KWh panels on slate

    Solis Inverter

    Dyness 9.6KWh Battery

    Cost: €22,515.68 (including VAT tax at 23%)


    The panels have a 20 year warranty and the battery a 10 year warranty.

    Im new to this and Im trying to work out if its worth it - here are my calculations for Option 1:

    The number of sunlight hours where i live (Tipperary) is 1307 per year. So i did the calculation: 1307*410 (watt rating of panel) *18 (num panels) *0.8 (performance factor) = 7716 kWh.

    So then Annual Savings=7716.53 kWh×€0.33/kWh=€2546.45

    That means that over 25 years and at a panel degradation rate of 1%, I'd save €56,576.77 on electricity.

    Since the battery has a 10 year warranty, it will probably need to be replaced at a cost of €1783.50 every 10 years - which is a little over what Im saving per year.

    That means a total system cost of €19,934.50 and with maintenance of, say, €7500 over 25 years, total cost would be €27,434.50.

    I will also be applying for a TAMS grant.

    So with savings of €56,576.77 and a cost of €27,434.50 over 25 years, Option 1 seems like a no-brainer. However I have been warned off solar panels (without really being given details as to why). Am I missing something? Is this as big a no-brainer as it seems?

    Post edited by markkelly9999 on


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    #69
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    I got a domestic quote without the battery for 18 panels for half of quote 2, BER EDDI included.



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    #70
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Basically your a large domestic install (although should be a little cheaper due to the steel roof)

    All very expensive. Your looking for 1-1.2k per 1kw of panels (at the end up)

    Couple of notes,

    Vat rate for domestic is zero, and for non domestic it's 13.5%

    Supply only is 23%.

    Where is the 21% coming from?

    Flat rate farmers can claim vat back on solar installs though.

    Have you looked into the TAMS grant/started the application? The seai one could be a lot more straightforward.

    As for calculations, stick the proposed array into this

    https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/#PVP

    It's pretty accurate.

    Without battery I'd say self use would be about 40% with the export being the rest.



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    #71
    idc
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭idc


    You might want to check the quotes thread https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329045/domestic-solar-pv-quotes-2024-no-pm-requests-see-mod-note-post-1#latest as other people with similar or larger probably getting better quotes than that. [EDIT guessing mod moved this as now in this thread!]

    Using JRC Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS) - European Commission (europa.eu) with an arbitrary location in Tipperary and optimum slope/azimuth the best you would generate is 6542.86kWh. This will also show you potential generation per month.

    You also have to take into account you won't use all that, in the summer you'll have filled the battery and will likely export a lot of what you generate. but at least with FIT you get paid for export. Also at the end of 10 years the battery will still work but may not hold the same charge as it did when you bought it. Like the panels it will degrade over time.

    Post edited by idc on


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    #72
    smpillai11
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭smpillai11


    sorry for the noob question. . The quote is for 14 Panels. I have some part shade due to trees from morning to noon. The roof is south facing

    The solar edge quote includes optimizers for each panel. I would appreciate if you can let me know if these is good value?

    Also is the sungrow without optimizer is any good?

    image.png




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    #73
    pagan22
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭pagan22


    is it me or are these prices getting silly,was interested in getting solar but having second thoughts



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    #74
    markkelly9999
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭markkelly9999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704558#Comment_121704558

    Thanks for the comment.

    Ok I went back to the solar company and clarified the quotes. Tax is a combination of 23% for panels and 13.5% for labour. I have updated that in the question.

    So at €1.2k / 1kw I should expect a price of €8856 (€1.2k * 7.38KW) for the panels, but I got a quote of €11k. This may be because the company knows Im applying for a TAMs grant. As with all grants, contractors add on more. But I will get ore quotes.

    I used that website (very useful btw thanks) and Im see kWh of 6711.12. So I redid the maths and I get € savings of €49,205.22 over 25 years.

    You say "Without battery I'd say self use would be about 40%". What would you say it would be with a battery? Is it too simply to calculate as 6711.12/8500 = 78%?

    Fair to say that in your experience, a solar panel system for me would be a very good investment, but that I should look for cheaper quotes?



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    #75
    markkelly9999
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭markkelly9999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704593#Comment_121704593

    Thanks. Ya it looks like the quotes are expensive - contractors probably adding on a bit because Im applying for the TAMs grant. Went on that site and Im getting 6711kWh. I'll look for other quotes but even these expensive ones look like a good deal, factoring in electricity bill savings. With TAMs I cant export btw.



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    #76
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Hi Guys,

    Looking to confirm this quote is reasonable. Based in Dublin. Ready to pull the trigger after cancelling last summer.

    3.9kW system (3,800kWh estimate per year)

    9 x 435 Jinko Black Panels

    5kW Solis Hybrid inverter

    Price before grant €8450

    After Grant €6400

    Stay Free



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    #77
    tommythecat
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707023#Comment_121707023

    A bit on the expensive side. Is the BER included?

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



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    #78
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707106#Comment_121707106

    BER is included. It's broadly in line with quotes I was getting last year for 8 panels.

    Stay Free



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    #79
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705135#Comment_121705135

    Odd, Normally they just charge it all at 13.5... (as a supply and fit)

    Do look into going with the domestic grant avenue Vs tams.

    As for costings( taking battery out of the equation, for now as that has its own costings)

    I have the numbers for a 8.6kWp system. Excluding battery, excluding any diverts (eg immersion diverter(eddi)) in 2020 I had a 35% self use. the reason for this is that you could have days of 1 or 2 kwh in winter and days of 50 in summer,

    Take your numbers of 6700kWh per year, and you used 40% thats 2680kwh you have saved. (at 33c?) 884€

    the remaining 60% exported, 4020 (and i see the FIT rates coming down with the electric rates) is €804in a FIT - Income tax implications isnt as bad as for a regular domestic consumber as the electric is part of the farm, less electric bill is technically more profit/less expenses.

    1600 per year savings currently (but as energy prices drop back down that will reduce). I still say solar is a no brainer, on a farm but as long as you dont overpay for it.

    Get more prices. They are very high.

    Panels are about €100 euro each trade price + vat

    Inverters are about 600-1200 ish depending if you get a hybrid.


    And for costings on batteries with a 5kwh battery, the most you could save is possibly 4kwh a day (that you would have otherwise exported for 20c..)



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    #80
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604524#Comment_121604524

    Mind sending pm where you got this quote?

    Stay Free



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    #81
    idc
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭idc


    A relative sent me this, for other users this is definitely not a quote to go with !

    • 10 x 405W QCell panels
    • Solis inverter - no size listed
    • Eddi

    After grant price is 8500 😯 The 10 panels + inverter alone has a list price of over 11,000!

    But then gets reduced by SEAI grant of 2100, and random 2045 discount (although the 17 page quote mentions sign in his garden for 6 weeks!). so final price is approx 8500. Stuff like the sign was never even mentioned during the salesman visit!



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    #82
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,694 ✭✭✭deezell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707898#Comment_121707898

    Sounds like the company that actively ate something.



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    #83
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 6,352 ✭✭✭con747


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707898#Comment_121707898

    If they are lighting a fire tonight at least they have 17 pages to light it with. Run away from that quote and rip off company.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #84
    HotSwap
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707956#Comment_121707956

    This company did an install near me. And they put 15 panels in the roof; and there was space for a 16th panel that would have made the whole thing symmetrical. I don’t know how the homeowner can look at it every day. It was well within the tolerances of edge spacing.



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    #85
    markkelly9999
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭markkelly9999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707194#Comment_121707194


    Ok thanks. So it seems I should consider 2 options:

    1/ domestic SEAI grant and solar panels without a battery, for which I can export the excess back to the grid. 40% of the electricity the panels capture I would use myself as per your estimate .

    2/ TAMs grant for solar panels and battery. I cannot export to the grid as part of the grant system. However the grant is bigger - 60% of the cost of the solar and battery system. With a battery, I estimate I would use 70% of the electricity generated.

    I worked out the savins ove 1 year, 25 years, and compared to xcost of the systems. Assumptions are:

    • FIT of 20 cent
    • per kwH cost of 33 cent (combination of day and night rate)
    • 40% self-use of the electricity generated for system 1
    • 70% self-use of the electricity generated for system 2


    Screenshot 2024-02-02 at 11.43.15.png


    So the TAMs option works out slightly better. Does this look correct?

    By the way, regarding electricity prices decreasing over the long term, i wouldn't be too sure. They are set by gas prices because gas provides the base load, and Europe is now sourcing its gas via LNG from the US. Last week Biden announced a pause on LNG exports. This will end up meaning higher electricity prices for Europe since the LNG will need to be sourced on the open market.



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    #86
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710417#Comment_121710417

    With the domestic install with grant, (and zero rate vat, although as a flat rate farmer you should be able to claim vat back on both cases..)

    I'd expect a straight install to be about 8-9k for a 8kwp system.

    Also does your quote match the tams costings? As you only get 60% of the costings.. not what you paid. (Been through tams a few times now for other things)



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    #87
    markkelly9999
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭markkelly9999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710655#Comment_121710655

    Does that 8-9k include the labour? Both companies i got quotes from had labour at 2,500 euro. Just reading about the difference now between quotes and TAMs costings, I hadn't realise there was a difference. I'll go back to both companies with the TAMs costing - the quote should match this presumably



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    #88
    DC999
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭DC999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704821#Comment_121704821

    Bumping this please folks and looking for feedback on it to help @smpillai11. It's someone I work with so looking to get people's thoughts here. They will (hopefully) be my 1st co-worker 'PV convert' :)



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    #89
    idc
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭idc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712246#Comment_121712246

    Not used SolarEdge myself but my understanding is they are an integral part of the whole solaredge system. You can't use solaredge inverter without them.

    As regards the prices did you put them into david hunts solar quote calculator ?



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    #90
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 781 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    ..

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #91
    HotSwap
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704821#Comment_121704821

    Hi. I’d avoid the solar edge; have seen many YouTubers disappointed with the systems performance; it has a very high startup voltage requirement. The battery’s are proprietary; which isn’t a bad thing; but they only come in 10kWh units; which can be prohibiting in terms of finding an install location.

    can you confirm if the sun grow is the hybrid or non hybrid option? If your considering getting a battery in the future it’s worth getting the hybrid version now for a little bit extra.

    any possibility you can send a photo of the roof with the shading on it? Will give me an idea of how bad it is; and if it could at all benefit from optimisers.


    we’re both quotes from the same installer?



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