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The new recycling system

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,155 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Where did he say that, haven't seen it?

    They'll not be many passing up a sale I think



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    This is their consumer guidance their last press release.

    From 1 February onwards, drinks in plastic bottles and cans with the Re-turn logo will start to appear in shops and supermarkets nationwide. These drinks containers will require the purchaser to pay a fully refundable deposit in addition to the price of the product. When finished your drink, you can return your empty undamaged container to any participating shop or supermarket nationwide.

    To prevent waste, for a limited period, from 1 February there will be some stock of plastic bottles and cans without the Re-urn logo. As consumers will not have paid a deposit on these plastic bottles and cans, they can be placed in recycling bins.

    -------------------------

    Still telling people non logo doesn't qualify and to put those in their recycle bin.

    They are even fúcking up their own name. 😂

    The very least they can do is update their website to play the Benny Hill Theme tune.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    NO! you're wrong! try "entrance of the gladiators"

    and maybe re-urn is forshadowing for the scheme burning up, or perhaps a subtle nod to some incineration for fuel referrernce of the recycelables lol

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,155 ✭✭✭batistuta9




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,877 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Our earlier poster may have just met an ill informed staff member which was why I pointed out in an earlier post the matter should have been escalated to someone who knew the right answer.

    I had the same understanding as you on the 3 streams and while it's a bit complicated it's not rocket science.

    Proper labelling and briefing staff fully would go a long way to avoiding confusion.

    Hopefully our poster's experience isn't widespread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Page 6?

    This is the banner of page 1.

    From 1 February 2024, when you buy your drink in a plastic bottle or aluminium / steel can with the Re-turn logo, you’ll pay a small deposit. Once you’re refreshed, bring back your empty and undamaged plastic bottle or can to any participating shop or supermarket nationwide to get your deposit back in full.

    ---------------------

    I know the Comms Director have hardly been busy, but you think they would actually read their own fúcking website.

    Nah sure, get paid either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    It’s not. It’s an opinion.

    You’ve no idea what ReTurns powers are. Neither do I. It’s an opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Just bought two bottles of tesco squash no logo - charged +25 cent on each at the till (on top of the shelf price). Didn't realise till I got home an checked receipt.

    raging - surely tesco are now ending up with the 50 cent for themselves? This has put me right off, and I want my 50 cent back tbh! Should be some mechanism for this manually during the transition period if you bring a receipt to show you were charged



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That's not what I what I was saying was a literal fact.

    Pay closer attention maybe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    you still asuming re-turn have "powers" because a businuess registered with them. wow.

    the stores were mandated by law to register with them and take part in the scheme, that is one thing, re-turn cannot move the goal posts and blame others for their own blunders. re-turn dont have a leg to stand on. not an opinion only fact.

    the policies of this not-for-profit company isnt law. they offer nothing in return to anyone but themself. you seem to think government requiring businuesses by law to sign up with these clowns, gives these clowns an ability to create and enforce their own policies as law upon businuesses lmao wtf

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    It’s not a literal fact. It’s an opinion.

    As pointed out, page 6 of the consumer guide is also a literal fact.

    The two facts contradict.

    It’s an opinion on which fact is correct. You hold an opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 chuda


    how stupid is that all idea...

    why not just make incentives like :

    waste companies weights your recycling bin, you get discount on general waste..

    or..

    pay for recycling at recycling centres , let`s say fiver for 10kg ..streets will be spotless..

    or..

    add some plenty of tax on those poisonous small sugar cans and ridiculous 100ml plastic bottles of gulp of water, create free drinkable water fountains like in some parts of world instead..

    or..

    dozens of ideas , but this burden on everyone, everyone now will have to go around to shop with bags of bottles, all those recycling machines for every single shop in a country is bigger damage then those few plastic bottles themselves, all those collection trucks will be going back and forth and will have to be maintained ..etc..etc..

    and like all people will suddenly even bother for few cents to follow this scheme ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    ReTurn were setup under the legislation below.

    I’m not claiming to have read or would even understand all of the below. The membership rules are akin to a contract. Breaking them can lead to arbitration. That’s how contracts work, it’s civil law.

    Section 14: “Where a deposit under these Regulations is applicable, a retailer shall charge the deposit on the in-scope product to the customer and provide the consumer with proof of payment of the deposit.”. There’s your law.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/599/made/en/print



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You are confused to which post you are replying to.

    Maybe time for a break eh?

    I doubt Ciaran is working the bank holiday, don't see why you should be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    regarding contract law, a contract is only valid for as long as its upheld by the issuing party and their agreement. When they go moving the goal posts they violate their own contract thus making it null and void, but then again there is no exchange or sale of goods taking place at all. Contract law is'nt applied here at all.

    Also that thing you pasted only applies to in-scope containers. it says nothing about what i said, and still shows they have no leg to stand on. It does'nt address burden of proof, or anything. There is no case here and no risk.

    infact what you just pasted shows any shop who do decide to charge a deposit without providing them (the customer) a receipt, is breaking the law.

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    i have not mistaken anything. Your statement is an opinion. Not a fact. Return define what an in scope container is, they have stated some containers without a logo are in scope.

    You have an opinion. Not a fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Section 3(1) defines an in-scope container. However, it’s reasonable to assume that ReTurn will interpret this and their guidance that is the consumer handbook is what I would take as the in scope definition. That definition includes non logo containers.

    In relation to an earlier point, Section 5(1)(e) states ReTurn have the power to audit retailers. Do you now accept that they have this power?

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/599/made/en/print



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,877 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Don't panic.

    Have they got a barcode ?

    If so put it into the checker on the Return

    website.


    If it confirms as refundable happy days.

    If not hold onto the bottles and receipt because Tesco owe you 50cent.

    Best to keep the receipt anyway in case you have difficulty at the RVM.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭Neowise


    After you finish the drinks and have two empty bottles, you have to return them to a reverse vending machine to redeem your 50 cent deposit. I'd hope that you can bring them to any RVS, but maybe tesco have only made their own machines redeem on there own brand bottles in order to trap people back to their shops.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    You can bring them to any Reverse Vending Machine. A Tesco bottle will be accepted in a Lidl Machine and vice versa.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,839 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The amount displayed should be (IMO anyway) the total amount due at the till. This should be clear and unambiguous.

    If a slab of Coke cans is gonna cost 23 quid (or whatever) at checkout then that's what should be clearly displayed - not X plus Y (add that up yourself by the way) to get the actual Z



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    they have stated some containers without a logo are in scope.

    Yeah the day the scheme launched.

    100s of millions of products already in store with no deposit paid on them to the wholesaler.

    Again. Fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You need to read everything, not just the bits you think suit your false narrative.

    3) (a) A retailer shall immediately reimburse the value of the original deposit paid, in a manner prescribed by the approved body, to a consumer who presents an in-scope bottle or in-scope container for return, irrespective of where the in-scope product was purchased and the deposit first paid.

    (b) A retailer shall not be required to take back –

    (i) an in-scope bottle or in-scope container that is damaged,

    (ii) an in-scope bottle or in-scope container that is not empty,

    (iii) an in-scope bottle or in-scope container that does not have marking that indicates a deposit was payable on the purchase of the in-scope product to which it relates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    That’s fine but it doesn’t change anything above. Your statement above is an opinion. Not a literal fact.

    You like presenting your opinions as fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    My false narrative? I’ve clearly said while it is defined in legislations this way, ReTurn will define and interpret the law as needed at this stage.

    Youve bolded a section in relation to what they have to takeback. Are we talking about the shop taking things back? No.

    Section 3(b) is irrelevant in this discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,003 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So it's against the law to refund the deposit without a logo but perfectly legal to charge without a logo? 😂

    ReTurn will define and interpret the law as needed at this stage.

    Clearly.

    Doesn't mean they won't be in breach of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Zatoichi


    Can anyone confirm if they're put the actual price you'll be paying on the shelf label.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    No. The law does not state that. You’re entirely twisting it.

    The law says the retailer or RPO is required too. It does not say they are not allowed too. More twisting from you.

    Im glad you agree ReTurn define an inscope container and inscope containers can have the logo as per their consumer guidelines pdf.

    Which returns to the very start of this. That shop is not charging a deposit on scope containers. As per the law, ReTurn can audit them.

    Wheres my scare mongering? Ive provided exhaustive evidence to back up that it’s a “risk”. Nothing more. Extremely unlikely but still a risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭BoardsBottler


    this includes non-logo containers that have/been sold with a deposit. Again how does this prove which shop the container came from if all non-logo stock barcodes are the same? and also how does it prove it was sold after jan 31st? there is litrelly no case here as non of it is provable that the shop is at fault. return have no leg to stand on, legally. There is no legal action they can take, and no case.

    3 times i've already given you the chance to pretend to be re-turn, and with myself being the role of the shop. What does my legal summons, or your solicitors letter to me accuse me of, as in which law am i being accused of breaking? what course of legal action are you taking against me?

    like i said, they can't just decide "go after" a business willy nilly.

    You can't take someone to court because you think they could have broken a rule

    They just want the quick easy money cash grab recyclables and to up their recycling stats at your expense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Do you accept ReTurn have the power to audit retailers under the linked legislation? Section 5 (1)(e)

    Under section 14(1), this retailer is selling an inscope container without charging a deposit. That is in breach of the law.

    Ive given you exhaustive evidence.



This discussion has been closed.
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