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Israel-Gaza: 'We are at war', says Benjamin Netanyahu

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    ... while Israel keeps doing the same thing and finds that each time its position is relatively weaker than the time before.

    It is only a question of time before they are learnt manners. Hezballah put manners on them in Lebanon, they will think long and hard before they ever send an invasion force across that border again.

    Sooner or later Russia or - more likely Iran - will place a working air defence system in Syria, which will one day take down a squadron of Israeli planes, and that will be that, air superiority gone for ever.

    I recently read an article saying that 1.5 million Israelis have left since October, and that large numbers of Israeli soldiers are deserting. The first bit sounded a bit over the top to me, but then who is to say that many didn't leave to visit family abroad at Xmas (yes, I know it isn't a jewish festival) and have not returned.

    There are certainly plenty of stories being shared on the Internet about Israelis who got their money out and have started a new life elsewhere, even people who have set up agencies to help people do precisely this.

    The trickle began with the election of the current government about a year ago, and could easily turn into a flood as Israel becomes a more unpleasant and more dangerous place to live. Not primarily, or not initially because of the war against the Palestinians but because a rightwing fascist government was coming to power. The destruction of Gaza can only hasten this; and not forgetting that the settlements close to the Lebanese border have already been evacuated, which has effectively diminished Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Perhaps you will give links to tge 1.5 million Israeli leaving and the mass desertion.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    IIRC it was in an interview with Leila Ghanem, but when I went to look for it again I couldn't find it. But while looking for confirmation/refutation I did come across lots of info about people (with money) leaving, favourite destinations were Portugal and California. For those without assets, Berlin seems to be the top destination.

    As always, everything to do with emigration from Israel seems to be shrouded in fog and very difficult to verify.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    So in other words no verification of what you posted. Quelle surprise

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Indeed, as I said.

    I guess you made the same requests of the Israeli murder machine when they came out with all their lying claims re October 7th?

    I'm sure you have called them out on their lack of verification of virtually everything?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Yesterday's loss of 20 plus soldiers, in one attack would leave you scratching your head, there not operating our functioning like a 1st class well trained army should



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    All of them were senior NCOs or officers hiding out in buildings that they had readied for demolition. Similar happened last week in a tunnel. Their reputation had taken some hit in the past few months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    It has happened before during this phase of the conflict that the only casualties reported were men, and all in their 30s or older.

    This seems strange, as armies are usually made up of younger men - and in Israel's case, women too.

    It's not like anybody would ever believe that Israel might tamper with the numbers or with the make-up of a unit destroyed by Hamas.

    Israel got a very nasty shock in the Lebanon back in 2006. Despite all the murder, mayhem and destruction meted out by Israel over the last 3.5 months, you'd wonder if they might be receiving something of a similar shock once again. This would explain why they apparently requested a two-month ceasefire - and could also explain why it was rejected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Plenty young lads reported killed on the idf side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I missed that, tbf I haven't been keeping a close eye on that side of things, but almost all Israeli deaths I have seen mentioned were men in their 30s and up.

    On another aspect, it seems that an Israeli TV channel has begun taking various claims about Hamas atrocities on October 7th apart. As I don't know Hebrew I can't vouch for the accuracy of the translation:




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I wonder to what extent the ICJ's decision to prosecute Israel yesterday will change their way of acting.

    Although the court didn't order a ceasfire, they imposed conditions on Israel that make continuing the war from the air impossible, as any "collateral damage" will be included as evidence in the South Africa's genocide case against Israel. War on the ground is pretty much circumscribed to raiding parties, as the use of tanks and other artillery will cause deaths and injuries which again will be added to the genocide case.

    This leaves Israel being allowed only to carry out a ground war, which will cause many deaths and injuries among their soldiers. Essentially, as I understand it, the court has levelled the killing field.

    Israel now has two choices - either obey the injunctions placed on them or ignore them.

    Obeying the injunctions would be tantamount to admitting the genocide case against Israel and will result in body bags going back to Israel. Refusing to obey would result in a new, much more stringent, injunction in a month's time, and could potentially bring every member of Israel's army and political class to court in the Hague, or at the very least turn them into international outlaws.

    Any thoughts, anyone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I see that a number of countries have responded to the ICJ resolution yesterday.

    Several of those countries have responded by withdrawing support from the victims of genocide. They are:

    Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Finland, the United States, Australia and Canada.

    While they claim that this is because of some UN staff members taking part in the action on October, but in fact this is nothing more than allegations by Israel, it looks like a petulant response to the ICJ for agreeing that Israel has a case to answer.

    Yet despite the court case alleging genocide by Israel, several of those same countries are sending weapons to Israel which will help them murder more Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    UN has lost all credibility as an honest broker and is now a joke of an organisation.

    UN workers helping Hamas on 7th of October is a body blow to the woke lefties.

    And Irish politicians continuing to support this rouge organisation financially is an embarrassment to our country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What injunction, was there an injunction against the Russians. The ICJ has no power

    Now we find that the UNRWA had staff helping HAMAS on its attack on 9/11. We can now probably accept that certain Al Jazeera journalists were embedded in Gaza by HAMAS as well.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Get a grip on yourself man. Is 25,000 killed and 62,000 wounded not enough for you? Many of those wounded will suffer pain for the rest of their lives; that's if they get enough food/care for the next months to survive. The hate being engendered by Netanyahu and his war party will endure for a century. It's murderous carnage now on behalf of the controlling segment in the Israeli population. Biden and the US are fully complicit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Get a grip yourself- there would quickly be a ceasefire if Hamas/Palestine surrendered and released the hostages.

    Hamas are hiding in the civilian population and have discarded military uniforms - of course there is going to be civilian casualties.

    There was no IDF in Gaza on 6th October. This has been self-inflicted by the Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Who said UNWRA workers were involved on October 7th? Was it the same people who claimed Hamas beheaded babies? Who claim that all sorts of crimes or rape and mutilation were committed on October 7th but cannot provide any proof? The people who carried out the Hannibal directive against their own population? Who murdered 3 Israelis carrying a white flag in cold blood?

    The people who have killed many thousands, children, women and men alike?

    And when was this claim made - was it the day when Israel was formally indicted for genocide?

    Come on, I have rarely seen such a clear case of deflection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Well the UNWRA seems to be happy with the evidence presented as it has sacked some of them already. So its not a deflection.

    As well the court DID NOT order a ceasefire so it accepts that Israel has legitimate rights to be at war with HAMAS

    There is a significant difference between being indicted and being convicted. The UN court also called for the release of the hostages being held by HAMAS and of course we know HAMAS will obey that directive.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I see the UK are considering recognising Palestinian as a State. I wonder what other countries are behind that statement. It surely has to put some sort of pressure on Israel to cease their campaign?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Well the UNWRA seems to be happy with the evidence presented as it has sacked some of them already. So its not a deflection.

    ...

    There is a significant difference between being indicted and being convicted.

    I'm a little confused why you feel that some Palestinian guys who haven't been brought to court should be dealt with in summary manner while in the same post making the clear distinction between Israel indicted and convicted.

    Or in other words, yet again Israel gets a free pass (including to mass murder) while Palestinians are guilty without question.

    Another way to look at this would be by analogy with other situations.

    For instance, do you believe that every individual member of Fianna Fáil should have been held accountable for the corrupt activities of the party leadership?

    Going back further into history, I seem to remember that Roger Casement was vilified prior to being executed. His diaries - the basis for the vilification - have never been made available to the public, they are still kept under lock and key. Should we accept everything we have told about those diariessight unseen?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    It might be just optics, given the support that the UK has provided to Israel in their genocide. It is very likely that some members of the UK government are now feeling that an indictment might even come their way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Why do you keep saying genocide as if it’s a fact? It comes across as Middle East bingo on your part - genocide, apartheid, etc etc

    “alleged genocide” should be used at worst, as nothing has been proven. And nothing will be proven - in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The holocaust of the Jewish people by the Nazi's is a historical fact.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Not everyone accepts it, just like closing their eyes to what's happening in front of their eyes on the TV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,787 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Proven in court of law repeatedly. Look up Mermelstein vs. the IHR for one example. Pull the other one. Those that don't accept the Holocaust are knuckle dragging moronic antisemites as a rule, some are wilier and grift their pig flocks, e.g. David Irving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves



    I say your eyes were closed on 10/7. Do I think what is happening in gaza is horrific. Yes however I also taught what happened in October was horrific. Every country has a right to defend itself. The solution is for HAMAS to release the remaining hostages and leave Gaza along with Islamic Jihad etc

    The Palestinian rallying cry

    ''Palestine will be free from the river to the sea's..... calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people. Its a sectarian statement. Its not a call for a ceasefire or a peaceful solution. It's actually a call for another Holocaust on the Jewish people.

    The Palestinian people have had numerous chances to achieve a two state solution. But in there own radicalism they have radicalized a large core of the population of Israel.

    2.1 million Arabs live in Israel as Israeli citizens. How many Jews would be allowed to live as citizens of Gaza and how long after it was known they were jew would they be allowed to live.

    Its amazing the amount of people that will support virtual dictatorships and non elected governments ( Russia and Gaza) and demonise democratic states

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    You might of had a point but the s**te been pulled in the west bank where ordinary Palestines are been terrorised and evicted from lands that's internationally recognised as theirs really doesn't gel with your above narrative, the fun fact that alot of the extremists Israeli factions are resettled Russians stirring up the above shouldn't be lost on people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Here is an understanding of "ordinary Gazans". I know that it's two months old but listen to the complete piece it's about 11 minutes long. There is a short period in the middle where they have to duck because of a rocket from Gaza

    The solution to this lies with Hamas and other terrorists leaving Gaza.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭Good loser


    There are other solutions.

    One that could be done in 5 minutes. The IDF stop killing/shooting/bombing/massacring.



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