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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    just a Fyi FYI- the state of Northern Ireland was created to prevent anyone (including your 'Ireland is full of republicans') of any republican/nationalist flavour from getting into power. SF are a republican/nationalist party. My understanding of history is fine. Hows your understanding of the English language, seeing that you can't understand my post?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Every understood the post and clearly your understanding of history is terrible but not a surprise when you consider Sinn Fein like to change history.

    Like a lot of Sinn Fein supporters you think only Republicans support Sinn Fein. This is incorrect. I have no interest in you trying to jump around 100 posts now to cover up the mistake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    You do know the alliance is a unionist party? Built to support a failed state by giving an option to moderate unionists and orange Catholics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It was started out as a party to represent represented moderate and non-sectarian unionism. It's no longer a unionist party or a catholic party. Something which is needed in Northern Ireland and more of it.

    Honestly I am baffled in 2024 when people come out with stuff like "orange Catholics". One of the most ridiculous comments I have seen on any thread got to do with Northern Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Orange Catholics are a real thing. They are from a catholic nationalist background but identify as either British or "northern Irish". You obviously don't spend that much time in the UK?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    True. It's mostly a home for a disgruntled Unionist vote and moderate Unionism though.

    The overall picture that emerges is that Alliance is a unionist party, but it seems afraid to say so. Its unionism is different from the defensive politics of the Democratic Unionists and Traditional Unionist voice. Instead, it seems more in keeping with its origins of the late 1960s – a liberal and moderate unionism that believes that Northern Ireland (within the United Kingdom) can be reformed. Increasing talk of a border poll might pose a challenge for the Alliance Party and its electoral rise. The binary nature of debates surrounding the poll (should there be one: yes or no; would you support a united Ireland: yes or no?) means that the Alliance position of navigating a way around constitutional questions may be difficult to maintain. 

    The Alliance Party of Northern Ireland: Are they really “other”? | Royal Irish Academy (ria.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Keep digging. It's getting more ridiculous by the minute

    Some people really are stuck in the dark ages when it comes to Northern Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Best part of the article, what have I said about Sinn Fein and shoving people into a category :-)

    Somehow you seemed to forget to copy that section into what you highlighted. Strange as it is the same paragraph and you can to copy & paste starting in the middle. Trying to hide it?

    Of course, the urge to shove the Alliance Party into a category, especially a unionist or nationalist category, says so much about Northern Ireland and its binarized ways. The Alliance position of not wanting to be categorised as one or the other seems to come from a place of wanting to make Northern Ireland a better place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can't see that you are 'categorising' them yourself.

    That 'comes' from a place too.

    How would I be trying to 'hide' an article I posted a link to?

    Be sure now NOT to deal with the writers conclusions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It's an excellent example of the nonsense you post Francie. You went into the middle of a paragraph in an article to selectively post a section because the first few lines didn't meet the propaganda levels you wanted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here we go. You will avoid the conclusion the writer comes to and we know why.

    Same as you post a discredited journalist's article and refuse to enter any discussion on them.

    A dictatorship is what you want Clo



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Making Northern Ireland a better place is supporting the status quo by the alliances own declaration. There is a binary choice in northern Ireland. Stay as Northern Ireland, a part of the UK , or not. There is no 3rd option unless you mean an independent NI??



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Partition created the north's politics.

    It'll be probably SF's fault in the book of Clo



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You can start making Northern Ireland a better place by not coming out with statements like "orange catholic", that would be an excellent start.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You shouldn't make statements about what other posters think. Especially when your own opinion seems to be what SInn Fein have told you it is.

    When Northern Ireland was created Provisional Sinn Fein didn't exist. So not it wasn't PSF "fault"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You got caught out Francie, again. As the writer says the Alliance wants to make Northern Ireland a better place, the same can't be said of Sinn Fein who are more interested in bickering and making people lives as terrible as possible, then blame the DUP


    Of course, the urge to shove the Alliance Party into a category, especially a unionist or nationalist category, says so much about Northern Ireland and its binarized ways. The Alliance position of not wanting to be categorised as one or the other seems to come from a place of wanting to make Northern Ireland a better place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    @Clo-Clo

    You previously made a statement that SF 'had no support' and it was shown to you that in the period you talked about they had 11% and one MP.

    Of course you waltzed away from that and ignored it but would you now say the Alliance has 'no support' having 13% of the vote and one MP?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not what I wanted to highlight.

    The writer's conclusion and 'overall picture' again. I expect you'll avoid it again.

    The overall picture that emerges is that Alliance is a unionist party, but it seems afraid to say so. Its unionism is different from the defensive politics of the Democratic Unionists and Traditional Unionist voice. Instead, it seems more in keeping with its origins of the late 1960s – a liberal and moderate unionism that believes that Northern Ireland (within the United Kingdom) can be reformed. Increasing talk of a border poll might pose a challenge for the Alliance Party and its electoral rise. The binary nature of debates surrounding the poll (should there be one: yes or no; would you support a united Ireland: yes or no?) means that the Alliance position of navigating a way around constitutional questions may be difficult to maintain. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    again, no actual content to what you are saying outside of you telling us you know so much about sf voters (which you dont). waffle and whataboutery. SF are part of the republican movement but nowhere was it stated they are ALL of the republican movement. Thise who created the north originally wouldnt have cared - they just didnt want them nasty taigs getting power. too late now



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    yourself foremost it seems. Growing up in the north I met many mass going catholics who went ot orange parades and otherwise identified as orange order supporters. 'Orange Catholics' do exist



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "taigs" and "orange catholics"

    Honestly you are living about 30 years behind the rest of the young people of Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unionism’s first strategic mistake. - thinking they could gerrymander and veto their way to power perpetually. They’ve been making strategic mistakes since



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Thanks for the life advice there, guru. get back to us when you return from your whataboutery wanderings as the above isnt much of a discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    I'm delighted to see how things are going in stormont. If the DUP start to wise up a bit, the roads up there might get a bit of tar put on them again. The more the extreme, right wing'd Unionism (like Jim Allister) squeals as it get less relevant, the more we'll see progress but I'd say unionism itself will scare off enough people to pave way for a UI. I'd say MoN's idea of a decade of opportunity is spot on. We wont have it in a decade but I'd say we'll all have started to have a discussion on what we might see it as being. Only a matter of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    if someone who doesnt care about a UI reckons its 60/40 in their favour, i think thats near enough 50/50 to push ahead for it. Ive witnessed enough sectarianism for anyone, first hand. The brits done the bank robbery - here we are zillions of years later with zero info bar the RUC getting a backhander on that one.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Those who sensationally claim their would be immediate bloodshed if a democratic vote on a UI was to happen need to observe what is happening here.

    Decades ago Paisley would have had 100,000 on the streets if he called for it.

    Notice there is no 'long hot summer' remarks from Bryson or Allister or even a call to rally this time.

    Rather meekly Allister has gone back into Stormont.

    The news about Charles will kill any chance of the 'great betrayal' story gaining any traction on 'the mainland'.

    Things will settle down now and we'll see if Jeffrey will follow through on his threats to challenge via the WF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,942 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And what is wrong with that? Northern Irish is a real identity. 100 years of separation have created that identity.

    If people, catholics or protestants or atheists want to identify as Northern Irish, who are we to pour scorn on them or deny them their identity, as so many good republicans around here wish to do.

    What was most interesting about the weekend was the clear slapping down of Sinn Fein's comments on a border poll by almost everyone else. Get on with governing Northern Ireland was the message.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unfortunately your view is not shared by anyone watching events without a jaundiced eye.

    Questions over NI's future can't be batted away

    Meanwhile, Leo Varadkar was also on script when asked about the future reunification of Ireland, having said last year he thought he would see this in his lifetime.

    When I asked him at Stormont he avoided the question, and later told reporters the question of a border poll was "a question for another day".

    But the reality is that constitutional debate about Northern Ireland's future now can't be batted away.

    Brexit has turbocharged questions about Irish reunification and nowhere is this seen more than the embodiment of a Nationalist first minister for the first time in Northern Ireland's 103-year history.


    Sunak gets a victory lap after one of his few successes - but Irish unity question won't go away | Politics News | Sky News



  • Administrators Posts: 53,839 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I see that in NI SF have unexpectedly landed both the Finance and Economy portfolios, which is very interesting given we're in the lead up to an election in the south. This should give southern voters a useful barometer as to the competence of the party to handle those sort of jobs.

    Finance in particular is a tough gig, especially as I suspect a big part of the job will be to implement cuts, the potential is there for SF to get hit in the south by FF and FG if they make decisions that are contrary to the message they're trying to give here.

    I'm honestly not sure SF will have wanted both of them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Indeed.

    It will be interesting to see how SF manage this role.

    A SF slip in the polls again in the south, combined with any financial errors in the north, means FFG are likley to capitalise in the Republic come election time.

    Although independents could represent the 2nd largest political cohort in the south by then.



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