Abortion Discussion, Part the Fourth

Here's a brief Newstalk report if you don't trust ole grift.ie

Here's a list of the naysayers if that is what you were looking for

Predictable names there, minus Carol Nolan for some reason. Not a government TD among them, this seems like ancient history now

Oireachtas site now updated

Interesting that there were no absentions recorded, Carol Nolan must have been absent for whatever reason.

Some of the commentary from the Healy-Raes, Michael Collins et al is just bizarre.

I'm not aware of any religion in which standing around outside maternity hospitals whether silently or otherwise is a form of worship.

Remember the 2018 debates here and in the media when we were constantly told that the opposition to repeal of the 8th was not religious in nature... 🤥

They really need to press on now and remove the 3 day wait and seriously look at the time limit too.

No surprises here

And no surprise that the Russian Orthodox Church is right in there.

They might consider that the kleptocratic shít economy is causing the stagnant population? And who wants to raise sons just so they can be conscripted and killed in pointless wars?

Actually, no. Abortion was already banned in Germany before the Nazis came along; under the Weimar republic it was decriminalised only the case of grave danger to the life of the mother.

The Nazis in fact widened access to abortion, making it available in in cases of deformity or disability, if either parent was the carrier of a genetic disease, if either parent was Jewish, or on various other eugenic grounds. And of course in many circumstances they practiced forced abortions, again on eugenic grounds. But they also increased the penalties for abortion in cases where it wasn't permitted, up to and including the death penalty for repeat offender abortion practitioners.

At one stage they were performing around 6M a year. apparently at one point they had more abortions in a year than live births. the decrease in the last 20 years is most likely down to the increased availability of contraception.

Finally

The "Life" campaigners are trying out a new publicity ad tactic, that the money they claim has been used to terminate pregnancies has cost other branches of public health medical the ability to provide care for the public.

And, lest we forget, childbirth is very impactful on the mother (so, lots of potential medical expenses) and a percentage of children born with disabilities will require significant medical resources all through their lives.

As long as the necessary changes are made I couldn't give a fiddler's how "comfortable" or otherwise Varadkar and co. are.

The 12 week limit isn't nearly enough but nothing in that article about that and scaredy cat politicians will kick for touch.

Is this a widely held position? Seems a gestational limit of in and around 12 weeks for 'choice' abortions is standard across the developed world, even in the ultra-liberal Scandinavian countries

My impression is the big pressure for change, and where the debate is likely to focus, is over the definition of 'fatal foetal abnormality'...

That link requires a login.

12 weeks for any reason is common enough, but what can happen after 12 weeks varies a lot.

We continue to rely on the "safety valve" of the UK. If it was up to me then non-fatal foetal abnormalities would be allowed (which would solve the "is it fatal enough" problem), but the usual suspects who want more severely disabled babies to be born would be up in arms. Their efforts are meaningless anyway as couples affected just go to the UK, the expense, difficulty and additional trauma involved is something they don't care a whit about.

Fwiw a lot of info on abortion, which might have helped some of the women in that article can be found at reddit.com/r/abortion

Conceiving a child and raising it to birth are choices. Fortunately, we have them in Ireland. Likewise everywhere else.

The bible teaches many good things and you are entitled to your opinion but religion should never be allowed to dictate the laws of society, its not fair on the people who are not practicing Christians.

In matters related to the referendum on the 8th amendment on the 25 May 208 and a statement alleged to have been made by Gemma O'Doherty about Kitty Holland on O'Doherty's website when she was interviewed by John Waters, Hollands SC [Shane English] read out a statement in open court today which he said was made online by O'Doherty about acts of murder O'Doherty alleged were committed by Holland against two of Hollands own children.

Holland is suing Waters for defamation in relation to the allegations made against her by O'Doherty. Today's hearing was to set dates for the defamation hearing which is now to take place over four [4] days at the end of April next. Waters, who describes himself as an unemployed journalist, pro-life and an opponent of abortion, has entered a full defence in which he denies having published the words complained of and claims that at all times he was exercising his right to free speech. He claims he was not aware that an address by him to the November 2017 annual party conference of Renua Ireland was being recorded and broadcast on line.

Mention was also made by Mr English during todays hearing of allegations on the same website referencing the Judge hearing todays case and two of the judges brothers. Judge O’Connor advised Mr Waters’ barrister to get instructions from his client in relation to the very serious allegations in relation to the court.

The report on today's court hearing concerning the journalists is in todays Irish Independent.

Vive la France

Florida is getting a six-week abortion ban, in effect total

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/us/2024/04/02/florida-supreme-court-clears-way-for-abortion-ballot-and-six-week-ban/

But it's also getting a referendum later this year to embed abortion rights in its state constitution. Overturning Roe v. Wade, and court decisions since then which have restricted abortion rights, have already turned out to be counterproductive as the electorates of other states have voted to copperfasten abortion rights.

Ballot box poison, and it serves them bloody well right.

Seems like AZ has blocked the first attempt to repeal the 1864 abomination. Republicans thought it too soon. New boards linking doesn't seem to like archive.ph. archive.ph zrgE7

Growing calls for proposed changes to Ireland's abortion law to be implemented

Motivated I guess by the appointment of a new taoiseach and the sense that the clock is running out for the current government

Programme is on RTE1 right now (starts on RTE1 +1 at 10:35)

Good so far and not getting into the usual crapola about whether abortion should be allowed or not. It is allowed, the focus is on whether services are being delivered as they should.

Harris questioned today about it.

Brîd Smith ( of all people !) very capably reading back his previous stance on it which illustrates that he would have considered what is now happening as a " government in dereliction of its duty " ...this his own statement on how legislation should be enacted to support the results of the referendum effectively!

He then replies with it being put ' to the people ' in the referendum. But as she responded to him , the 3 day wait for an abortion , and 28 day limit for the 2 doctors to sign off on a FFA was never suggested or discussed before the referendum , so it was incorrect to say it was what people voted for .

Both of those points along with the threat of a 14 year sentence for doctors are what is causing the stifling of abortion services for women in this country .

Not a fan of hers in general but I am in agreement with her on this .

Women have fobbed off with this legislation which is ham fisted and ill conceived , unless of course you are a government trying to reduce the effectiveness of legislating for abortion.

Nobody wants legislation set in stone I agree .

And it is precisely for this reason that the government need to enact legislative changes based on the review they commissioned , and the report they have sitting on their desks for over a year now .

Those changes are three years a-waiting , two years delay in the report being commissioned, because of Covid ..fair enough .

But why has nothing been done about it in the last year ?