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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    People are over reacting to Crowley's errors being pointed out. That takes nothing away form him in an otherwise excellent performance. All of his errors were just bad decisions and are easily fixed in a positive coaching environment which he has. And I think the main point many people are making is that his confidence and courage wasn't dampened by his mistakes. First 6N start away in France and he delivered a very accomplished performance. That is massive for Ireland going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Just on two of Crowley's "errors" - the blocked-down kick and the chip through that had a little too much pepper on it.

    The immediate outcome in each scenario was a loss, yes.

    But what those kicks did was establish that Crowley is willing to dink and chip and that at no point could France be fully aggressive with their Edwardian linespeed if it sacrificed too much space in behind the defensive line.

    I go back to one of the most impressive things Crowley brought to the game on Friday - the workrate to be running lines as the backdoor option with most attacking pods, creating a three-part threat that's a nightmare to defend. Stay passive, the forwards will get momentum and gainline success (as we did). Rush up, forwads go out the back door to Crowley who can either shoot for a gap, pass out wide or dink in behind you.

    Those two kicking decisions lost immediate battles but helped us comprehensively win the war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    "It was a very encouraging performance from an inexperienced player at this level. In context I don't think it's overstating it to say it was an excellent performance but if he produced the same against England or Scotland I wouldn't be super thrilled" - is this not a complete contradiction?

    I'd imagine most people would be delighted if he played to that level again? I know I would.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If Crowley has a similar game again v England, we'll win it. No bother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    I think we might need similar performances from a lot of other players more than Crowley. In fact, this Crowley hysteria is already getting silly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I honestly think the mistakes crowley made are a bit overblown and the irish press are overstating how bad his first half was.

    Also, leaving him on the bench was ill advised in the world cup. The best time for him to play with his skillset is against tired legs.

    However, it wasn't perfect against france. I'd agree with that and expect him to be better going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Pretty much to a man, nobody had a bad game in Marseille. In addition to Crowley, the particular standouts for me were McCarthy, Aki, Sheehan, Lowe, Doris and Beirne. Though only the former is filling the boots of a 120+ cap legend. So I wouldn't call it hysteria, more very enthusiastic optimism for what might lie ahead.

    We'll need everyone on song again to beat England in Twickenham.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    To put the filling the boots of a legend with 120+ caps in context and how two legends themselves performed on the 6Ns debut

    From RTE




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    The (not so) great, Crowley v Sexton debate begins..



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    No real debate for me..

    If Sexton's the GOAT, Crowley's the kid!

    <gets coat>...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Actually the crowley criticism kind of crystalized for me.

    If sexton was playing and we scored 5 tries, the assumption would be that we did that partially because of his presence. Whereas, we believe we partially did it last weekend despite Crowley's presence.

    I'm absolutely sure if you go back to the start of sexton's reign he got the same treatment as crowley is getting. People judge things through the lens of their preconceptions.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He'd better spend those few years in tackle school if he ever wants to play high level rugby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I swear this is just baiting people to criticise Crowley? Virtually everyone has said he had a pretty good game with a few errors, deciding those errors are now successes has to be some form of rage bait. Why does everything have to be so hyperbolic? Can he not have just had a 6-7/10 game?

    He genuinely had 4-5 big errors in the first half, it happens, he's a new 10.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    That’s exactly what’s going on, gushing about how amazing he actually was and hoping someone jumps in to say he wasn’t.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,693 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I’ve a basic concept of rugby admittedly, but from my view his blocked kick, overcooked grubber and missed conversion are about all he done wrong all game? Seems to be getting stick for not a whole lot?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Were there really 4-5 big errors? What did they lead to?

    The were a couple of mistakes, sure - the block down, the kick thru that went long and the penalty miss (bearing mind he still had a better kick % than a goal-kicker of the calibre of Ramos on the day).

    But that's as good a performance as we've seen from a non-Sexton 10 in years. Away from home in France. In his first 6 Nations start.

    People are entitled to be pretty excited about. That doesn't make it hyperbolic. Nor does it make it "rage bait".



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Do you think the same about the Joe McCarthy praise? Why / why not?

    And that's not meant facetiously; I don't think it's an unfair question, if that's your position on the Crowley praise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    And here we are - you want me to dissect his performance so all of the Munster fans go off the handle. I'm out.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You've said there were 4-5 big errors. I'm simply asking you what they were. I don't think that's unfair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think the anxiety is relating to replacing Sexton with a player who isn't from Leinster, more than replacing Sexton

    When Sam Prendergast plays any game, at U20s, or Leinster he makes loads of mistakes, which is perfectly fine, he's very young, but there is never any 'despite his errors' commentary when Sam comes off the pitch.

    It's because there is a clear anxiety about replacing Sexton with a player from outside the Leinster system because that has implications beyond Crowley himself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 36 ShammyBajones


    Why did they schedule Ireland v France first week?

    6 Nations is dead already. We are winning the slam. You can pretend to be humble and act as if competition is high but the rest of the teams are useless. Look at the state of the Wales and Scotland teams. Look at the tries Scotland scored, no chance they'll score easy tries like that v us.

    Look at the way Wales played and scored points to get back in the game. Not a hope in hell they'd score like that against us, we'd win penalties and knock them back in tackles, force knock ons before they'd even get into our 22. Connacht would beat both of those teams themselves!

    If the french stop giving a **** about the 6N, then we will dominate for years to come.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Fcuk me this place can be a provincial cess pit at times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Some of his 'errors' were not 'bad decisions' at all

    Kicking the ball dead over the dead ball line was a mis executed kick, so yes that's an error, but was it a bad decision? Well, what was he trying to achieve? When you're looking at a game as a game of strategy and moving assets around a pitch (which is what a great out half does) then sometimes you need to make low percentage plays in order to show your opponents that you're prepared to make those plays, and this changes how they defend against you

    If you're playing a really conservative 10, you can ignore him as a direct attacking threat if he always moves the ball and rarely executes the kicks or long passes himself, and this means the defence can focus more on the support players and they'll have less space to run into

    Its like in Poker, if you make it really obvious early in a tournament, that you're a 'loose' player, your opponents will play differently against you, so it's a good strategy to gamble on cards you're likely to lose early on, and show them early, in order that people will gamble more when you stay in a hand. If you only ever play the high percentage cards, then even when you get the pair of Aces, your opponents will fold to you and you'll not make any money and will lose plenty of hands that you would won if you had stayed in the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Well that's not a very pointful debate given that Sexton is retired so they're never going to be competing for a place on the team/ Crowley vs Byrne Vs Prendergast is where it's at. And Crowley is head and shoulders above Byrne and Sam Prendergast is nowhere near ready, physically or from a game development point of view for this level of rugby

    Frawley would be ahead of Harry for me, except he's not getting selected at club level so he's not going to be able to improve his game between international windows enough to be a top 5 international standard out half



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If there were really 4/5 big errors, then it shouldn't take much dissection

    If there were 3 minor errors, then you might revise your analysis of his performance

    TBH, on first viewing of lots of games, Its easy to get a misleading idea of how any particular player performed. Loads of 'experts' were saying Doris, for example had a quiet game but he was actually incredibly good, just not always doing the things that your eyes were immediately drawn to on the first, emotionally charged viewing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 ShammyBajones


    Gibson Park is very important for us, more important than Sexton was the last couple years imo. He's a livewire and never shirks responsibility.

    Not sure we need to be concerned about Crowley, nor do I think him being in the team is massive to our chances. We no longer rely on individuals, the team is well oiled with quality all over. Can understand why Munster fans would be gleaming thinking a back of theirs has made it into the Ireland first choice 15 though.

    You could put Ross Byrne in and it wouldn't make any difference.

    Practically everything we do is down to hard work, repeated on the training pitch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Not really McCarthy had a good game and was praised, similarly Crowley had a good game with some minor errors, was mostly praised and 4 days later we are getting breakdown posts of how great he actually was and naked provincialism from one poster who is obsessed with Leinster and sexton.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 ShammyBajones


    Also worth pointing out Crowley is not a kid, he's 24.

    Ntamack is just a few months older than him and started in the 6N 5 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You could put Ross Byrne in and it wouldn't make any difference.

    Ross Byrne simply doesn't have the same line-breaking ability that Crowley has, or takes it as flat to the line. I'd wager you'd have to go back a fair while to find him making the 28m carried that Crowley made in this game.



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