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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And France had a decade of underachievement, where their highest 6 Nation's finish was 3rd, before they decided to play a 19 year old Ntamack. You can't say remotely the same for Ireland.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    But the post you agreed with called them "4-5 big errors". But now you're saying "some minor errors"?

    That's not the same thing.

    Fwiw, I absolutely agree, they were minor errors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭salmocab




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I thought Jack Crowley was absolutely fantastic at the weekend.

    I know the development landscape has changed in the last 15 years and I know they're not like for like.

    But I do think it's incredible that he is still younger than Sexton was making his debut against Fiji in 2009. So to be able to do what he's doing at just 24 is a really encouraging thing. Although the Fiji debut is a small misnomer as the next week he started against South Africa and kicked all 15 points and played the game with a broken hand!

    (Incidentally - in looking up their age comparison I did notice that Ireland played their 2 away games to France and England in the 6 nations in 2010 - the year a 24 year old Sexton started going toe to toe with ROG for the 10 shirt. Johnny started in Twickenham, played 70 minutes and played bloody well to steer Ireland to victory - so some very nice poetic comparisons)

    Anyway. Digression begone.

    Crowley went to one of the toughest away games against the toughest opponents and showed variety and confidence. I love how he strikes the ball. Drilled everything over the posts.

    I wouldn't envy anyone who had to take over that 10 shirt. But so far he's done it with aplomb. Hopefully it continues



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo



    If it was another player you wouldn't say they are minor

    In my opinion all of the players who took the pitch had a great game, including Crowley. But people are allowed to be slightly critical of Crowley without Munster fans losing the plot which is what seems to be happening at the moment.

    Also a number of players made errors during the game but overall it was a great performance. Excellent win for Ireland but we need to continue now and at a minimum win the 6 nations.

    I wonder how you would have described the error if it was Harry Byrne on the pitch for instance? 😂



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    If it was another player you wouldn't say they are minor

    I wonder how you would have described the error if it was Harry Byrne on the pitch for instance? 😂

    Absolutely not true. I've praised plenty of players from every provinces on here over the years.

    But people are allowed to be slightly critical of Crowley without Munster fans losing the plot which is what seems to be happening at the moment.

    People are also allowed to ask what the "4-5 big errors" were without it being painted as "rage bait".



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Considering his age and limited experience I think Crowley played well. There is a lot to work on but he certainly seems to have the mentality and skill set to improve as he plays more higher level games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    The nitpicking of Crowley is a bit silly. Lenihan is always a rock of sense.

    Crowley is made of the right stuff. Plus there is no glaring weakness in his game. Very Important when it comes to the opposition analysing him.

    He mixed the bad with the good but Ireland are 100% in the right hands with him at 10 and also with Farrell coaching him.


    Of course the scrutiny of the outhalf is old as the game itself.

    From The Archives: England 5 v 18 Ireland

    Greatest Irish Victory on English Soil - Monday, February 10th, 1964,

    Gibson the inspiration of Celtic Renaissance by John MacWeeney

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The most fascinating feature of this contest was the dominating part taken by the rival out-halves, both making their international debut. For a time it seemed as if the stockey, strong little Brophy was going to capture all the limelight time. Time after time he sidestepped through the apparently impenetrable wall of defence, slipping out of tackles in the manner which made P.B. Jackson such a problem to any opposition.

    Brophy, in fact, made many more breaks into the open than Gibson, but so elaborate was his pattern-weaving that he lost touch with his support and the gaps, with just one exception, were sealed off, not however, without constant worry, and difficulty. Rogers and Philips did their best to keep track of the will-o- the-wisp out-half, but apart from helping in the try the more static Weston was hopelessly at sea and the veteran blindside flanker, Ford, was right out of his depth.

    More reminiscent of the Welsh rather than the English type of out-half, Brophy had his critics as well as his admirers in this game. He could not maintain pace as convincingly as the more polished Gibson, and as a link he was not in the same class as his rival, but he added a wonderful excitement and stimulation to the affair, and the English selector, surely Mick to Build team around him, he could bring a sorely needed spirit of enterprise into his country’s football.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I didn't say you don't praise players. I am saying that if it was a Harry/Ross Byrne made the same errors you would be all over them and pushing for Crowley 😂



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Again, just not true. I've outlined my reasons a number of times for why I'd pick Crowley ahead of Harry or Ross Byrne. It seems Andy Farrell agrees with me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who disagrees on that right now



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    There's no anxiety about replacing Sexton. Sexton was a generational talent. He was always going to be gone some day. The new 10 has a fresh start. No matter what province he plays for. Ireland have so much talent around the pack that any 10 has a chance to lay down a marker. I'm fully on the Crowley bandwagon. I couldn't give a shite were he's from or who he plays for. He's a good 10 and he will improve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    You get really defensive about Munster players...



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I haven't read the article but Paul's tweet is 💯 correct, especially, here on this thread.





  • Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Crowley played very well. He's got all the attributes needed. He's there on merit. I'm a big fan. I hope he guides us to the slam.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Nobody is saying Crowley shouldn't be playing, the point is that if another player like Harry was playing and made mistake you would be all over it, yet as it was Crowley they are passed off as minor. Anyway too many posts on this already

    Crowley had a great game as I said and hopefully he can continue for rest of tournament



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This is one of those things you can assert to be true without having / being able to provide any evidence of it. I don't think it's remotely true. Even in this game, where overall we played brilliantly, other players made mistakes that I haven't mentioned.

    Anyways, I'm inclined to agree with this:

    Anyway too many posts on this already



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I think it was meant as a joke about how AB wingers tend to have short test careers compared to other positions. I think the record number of caps for their wingers is 60 something. It's just a strange fact that in the ABs guys will play into their early or mid 30s, get 90, 100, 120 caps in all positions except on the wing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    its probably related to peak athleticism which is early 20s.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Their game plan almost always favours having devestating finishers on the wing and they produce enough quality athletes to replace them well before 30. Once a winger thinks another player will take their spot before the next World Cup they look at moving overseas to cash in on their remaining peak years.

    Most other national teams just don't have the supply of athletes to be so ruthless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    His grubber was poorly struck and probably not on anyway. I agree that those kicks create space by keeping defence guessing but I think he picked the wrong moment and executed poorly. Giving up promising attacking position in the 22 is not recommended so as to create space later. .

    he had another cross field in the last 20 that was on advantage but kicked to a spot where there was no Irish player. And he had at least one other example of the wrong kick at the wrong time. Noting wrong with any of it and I’d say Farrel’s view would be to keep doing it but let’s look at the decision about when and why. Crowley brings a whole new array of attacking options to the team and he’ll get plenty of time from me to make it work. He showed insane promise on Friday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    All his errors were related to the decision and execution in kicking from hand. He was very good with ball in hand imo, it didn't hurt us too much given how the game went but he gave away the ball twice in really good attacking positions for nothing. That cross field kick mentioned above was crazy, there wasn't an Irish player within about 30m of where he kicked it to. He improved a lot in the second half anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    NZ get the cream of the crop in terms of talent in NZ, as the number 1 sport if you are a good sports person rugby

    In Ireland in reality a lot of the best sports stars end up playing GAA. If we had all those GAA players coming into rugby maybe we would be different



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Weve started getting some on fairness sure jack crowleys from a gaa family



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Fogarty must not have sent the scrum memo to Dickson!

    Very interesting to read the CJBotha analysis of the scrum.


    I remember Joe Schmidt used to send a detailed referee report to the Six Nations after games.

    And it used to annoy Nigel Owens apparently! '50 things we got wrong...', 'We'd just not reply', 'the best coaches would send you a handful of things' - We'll Sorry Nigel!

    Scrum was also the focal point of JS reports of Barnes and Gardner games v Wales in 2015 (Barnes..and im sure many others of his games) and 2019 (Gardner).

    It didn't do Ireland any favours over the years. Owens comments are a case in point.


    Dickson (again), Raynal (v England '22), Barnes (again. And again. And yet again), have all created the perception that Ireland can be penalsed at scrum.

    Not sure what is the next step for Ireland...'Perception is reality until proven otherwise'



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Some, but still a tiny percentage

    Quick google sys Crowley family is rugby



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ref change for Sunday's game

    Brousset replaced by Luke Pearce



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Im up the road inishannon would be a gaa spot anyway. Same with thr coombes from skibb wytcherlys and hodnett from bantry west cork was all gaa bar maby the odd lad from clon. The inroads to there have been huge for munster

    Ben o connor in 20s won a minor all ireland last year i think.as captain amd was seen as a huge loss for them. Darren sweetnam was similar

    I dont think you see those lads 15 years ago



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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