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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    It's not a falsehood. Your understanding is less than I'd expect of a junior cert history student. That's all. The war began before 1948, and this is something stated by many historians so it can't be wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Again, no. They escalated it. Israel retaliated and escalated beyond anything reasonable

    They had spend months provoking though.


    How many times to people need to be reminded that Israel illegally settled more land and displaced many, many people on doing so, in the months priort to Oct. 7 than they had in a combined 40 year period prior. Displacing people and making refugees of families who had lived and worked on those lands for longer than Israel has existed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Zaka used Oct 7 to raise money by shooting PR videos.

    That's going to go down well with families of Israelis murdered, raped or taken hostage...


    Zaka May Have Cost Israel Its Case Against Hamas at the World Court

    Last week Haaretz published an investigation disclosing faults in the work of Zaka, a Haredi rescue organization best known for retrieving body parts after terror attacks (Aaron Rabinowitz, Jan. 31). The expose found that in the chaos of the first days after the October 7 massacre, the Israel Defense Forces assigned some of the work of collecting bodies and other evidence to Zaka, whose volunteers took advantage of their presence on the scene to film PR videos and to raise funds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The war began before 1948

    Really?

    Do you mean Arab nations attacked Palestine before May 1948? Or are you talking about the civil war that was brewing between 1947-1948?

    Regardless, I was responding the to explict charge it was Israel who started the 1948 war. I sense even you are now conceding this to be a falsehood.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    No, they were each phases of the same war. Again you're being deliberately ignorant. You know not one incident started the war and both Israel and Arab States, and others such as Britain had their hand in the outbreak of war.


    But to say, Arabs started to war, is so childishly stupid, that I cant believe you're doing anything than being an apologist for current crimes and are just another who is painting anyone who disagrees as some sort of antisemite.


    Go and actually read about the many incidents and nuances from pre mandate, to mandate period to the UN ratification. If you'd still come out with , "they started it", theres absolutely no hope for you, and there's even less point in engaging with you

    You have an incrediblly narrow minded and simplistic version of the very complex history in your head.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,723 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    And there's only one side behaving like Hitler and its the Israelis. The New Nazis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona



    I think you're confusing me with someone else?

    I never made a claim that Israel started the war in 1948. I simply quoted Wikipedia - I even put the sentence in bold so there would be no confusion.

    Sorry if you got confused. Easily done.

    No gotchas either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The countries in the region have a long long history of Jewish anti-semitism. They would have never accepted a Jewish state.

    It was only by might of arms that some finally relented.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    There's a number of news items coming out today that, as predicted by many, show the propaganda put out by Israel, the utter lies told and how "moral" the IDF is.

    I sense that the wheels are coming off for Israel and it will continue to unravel.

    Just on that Zaka story - these are Israelis filming Oct 7th and using that material as a means to raise their PR profile and make money. I can see the outrage and disgust that will generate reverberating for about 2 seconds...



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Please stop interrupting him while he's trying to rewrite history.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,723 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Disinformation forms a huge part in their strategy but people are beginning to see through it -

    Disinformation campaigns

    ''Researchers have documented at least 40,000 bots or fake social media accounts, as well as strategic use of state-controlled media outlets like RT, Sputnik and Tasnim. Israel has released several pieces of incorrect or disputed information, leading to weakened credibility and online ridicule.''



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Slowly but surely the world is turning against Israel and their genocide





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The most moral army in the world?

    In their dreams:

    Haaretz:

    GAZA: The IDF has begun investigating dozens of incidents in the current war with Hamas that have raised suspicions that orders were disobeyed, in which commanders on the ground exceeded their authority or where it is suspected that the international laws of war were violated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I don't know what to make of this one unless Israel has its eyes on the end of month report to the ICJ?

    Very odd considering Israel is adamant that UNWRA = Hamas


    Haaretz:

    Israel is pressing the U.S. and the UN to allow UNRWA to continue its role in supplying humanitarian aid to Gaza during the war, Israeli and American officials told the Wall Street Journal. UNRWA said it expects its preliminary report into Israeli claims that a dozen employees took part in the October 7 massacre to be ready by early next month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    For those scoffing at the IDF killing sheep article posted here earlier:


    Haaretz:

    Arab Israeli lawmaker Ahmed Tibi shared on X/Twitter footage of sheep being shot by Israeli snipers in Khan Yunis in Gaza. According to sources in Khan Yunis, the sheep were in Bani Suheila, near Khan Yunis, an area under Israeli military control.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Israelis want to get rid of the current govt. but don't want peace with their neighbours. Are they starting to enjoy the killing and want to see more?

    I guess if you're already committing genocide, why not go all in?


    A large majority of Israelis believe that the next Knesset election should be held before its designated date in November 2026, according to a poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. The poll also showed that about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war if it includes the establishment of a Palestinian state and peace agreements with other Arab countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Stick your tongue out:


    Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir issued a public apology after his son suggested U.S. President Biden suffered from dementia in a tweet he posted on X.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    This is a shocker:

    Haaretz:

    Israel Police revealed during a Knesset committee hearing that 116 cases have been opened of violent or sexual offenses in hotels where evacuated Israelis have been living since the beginning of the war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona



    "Complete defeat of Hamas"

    At a meeting in the White House, Knesset Speaker Amir Ohana told U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan that Israel's goal in the Gaza war is the "complete defeat of Hamas," and thanked the U.S. for its support since the outbreak of the war, especially in efforts to secure the release of Israeli hostages.


    oh, wait...


    Without minimizing the importance of the [Israeli] army's successes while fighting an unprecedented underground war, Hamas has not been defeated in Gaza. Far from it" – Amos Harel



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    And some didn't want a country simply created out of thin air for what represented 6% of the population .,


    Many of those in favour of the creation of Israel were vehemently anti Arab and were happy to lob this grenade at them as a f.u. but let's go back to the old boring antisemitism argument when thetes nothing left to fall back on



    It wasn't simply, anti semitism , and never was. Again an overly simplistic argument. It was an appallingly bad deal for Palestinians. Land carved up but everything of any remote importance was ceded to Israel.


    Imagine if the partition of Ireland had given not only Belfast, but Dublin, Cork, most of any decent agricultural land. Now, I'm being simplistic here, but that's basically what happened.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    So much for the war goal of releasing the hostages. With all the resources to mount rescue missions, it seems the IDF preferred bulldozing cemeteries, razing universities, schools and sniping nuns and people waving white flags. And looting. And rifling through knicker drawers. And murdering 90 children a day for four months.


    HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE: More than a fifth of the remaining hostages being held in Gaza are dead, according to an internal assessment conducted by the IDF, the New York Times reported. The families of 32 hostages whose deaths are confirmed have been informed, according to four military officials, who said they were also assessing unconfirmed intel that at least 20 other hostages have also been killed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Banksie hits that home better than anyone could. That's a forever artwork...



  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    Agreed but Hamas and their supporters will be loving it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,516 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr




  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    None of that justified Oct 7th.

    Hamas knew Israel would react. They may have misjudged the reaction.

    Hamas could stop this tomorrow.

    Where is the pressure on Hamas?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,738 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The fact they are being investigated is to be welcomed. Although if you were a cynic you might think this is due to the fallout from the South African case.

    I wouldn't hold my breath about anyone being jailed and kicked out of the IDF if these allegations are found to be true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    There's a slew of it today.

    I'm guessing there is so much of it, eventually some was bound to start leaking out.

    And if this is "some", God knows what's next.

    The only thing that might stop this murder and mayhem will, oddly, be Hamas agreeing the ceasefire conditions. I think many Israelis might pray they do.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    I never said it did, but Oct 7th equally doesn't justify Israels response, and continued decimation of Palestine



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems half of the Israelis would love it to continue too. 12,000 murdered children is clearly not enough for them.

    I'm sure the IDF have their eyes on a few more shekels and knickers too. And one can never get enough sniping practice.

    As the IDF are wont to say "Fukcin' A"



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