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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,573 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Rob Kearney made the point on VM after the game. Crowley have the most touches after the 9 so a few mistakes are inevitable.


    I can see him and McCarthy as starting Lions in 2025.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Crowley a starting Lion? When will this relentless hyperbole stop?! 😂

    But it's an interesting thought. I'm all aboard the McCarthy hype train now, and it's very hard to see the guy who played in Marseille on Friday night being left out of a starting Lions XV.

    I'd be less sure about Crowley, especially if Farrell has a chance to coach his son. Though a lot can happen in two years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Can Farrell be selected for the Lions if he's playing his rugby in France.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think he can? I think there's been dispensations for that kinda thing before? Tho, having said that, I can't really any off the top of my head....



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Not sure actually.

    If not, it's between Crowley and Russell and I'd lean the former.

    Though Fin Smith could be very much in the mix by then too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Clontarf_Jazz


    If Finn Russell was any more flakey he'd be sponsored by Cadbury's. He's as liable to thrown an intercept as a brilliant miss pass - not a Farrell type of player IMO i.e. as he does NOT stick to the script or the gameplan which I'd something I'd say AF can't abide



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    It's possible Crowley makes a move to NZ and starts for them 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭sprucemoose




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Ben healy lions starter



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Like you, I can't think of anyone, I was thinking of Wilkinson but I don't think he made a Lions tour while with Toulon and I think Sexton's tours were either side of his days with Racing



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The Lions are mandated to pick average Scots, so not impossible. I think Crowley has a great chance at being selected. He's a proven winner, unlike Russell and is only going to get better. It's not like Australia are any great shakes, even with Schmidt coming in, I'd be shocked if there's a big turnaround for them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Actually, Finn Russell is an example. Seems obvious in retrospect. Unless you meant English specifically?

    I was trying to think of more obscure ones like Abendanon and Steffon Armitage, as I kinda vaguely remember them being mentioned as not being ruled out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Interesting. Kids take their sport so seriously these days with gym culture and diet supplements seemingly unbiquitous that its not surprising that rugby's appeal is spreading. For talented athletes its no surprise that they are taking a look at rugby given there's a pro route available in Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On the 2013 tour there were quite a few - Gethin Jenkins was playing with Toulon at the time, Mike Philips with Bayonne and Shane Williams was called up while playing in Japan.

    Jonny Wilkinson turned down a call up in 2013 - he was with Toulon at the time.

    Leigh Halfpenny was picked in 2017 while playing for Toulon, and then obviously Finn Russell in 2021.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I would expect Crowley to travel in the Lions squad at this point. His national coach is selecting and the previous outhalves are all gone bar Russell who will be starting to get on a little and likely to be past his peak. Farrell can be selected but it's up in the air on availability and he too will be past his best at 33 (almost 34). Biggar won't be selected as he's retired from test rugby, injured most of the time and will be pushing 36. Sexton is gone.

    They'll take 3 outhalves. It's essentially a selection from Crowley, Smith, Farrell (if available) and Russell. They may even bring all four due to Farrell being an option at 12 and centre options not being overwhelming either. I doubt they'll consider Ford at this point for stylistic reasons.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Do you mean Marcus or Fin Smith? There's a lot of rugby to be played before then but Russell will surely be starting OH.

    Boards is about the only place I've seen where people almost unanimously **** on Finn Russell. Everyone else recognises him as one of the best 10s playing today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Crowley will probably be starting, Russell will have a key role off the bench though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,573 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Finn Russell has many positive attributes. He also has a lot of negative ones. He is also a big part of the reason why Scotland are so hot and cold.


    On Saturday v Wales he vanished in the 2nd half when they fell apart.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Marcus at this point in time. Fin looks good but he has a big problem in terms of getting top level exposure to prove himself either with his club or England where he's 3rd choice currently.

    Russell is an extremely talented player. I'd agree that Irish supporters in general tend to have a real attitude towards him. I certainly didn't rate him very highly in previous years but he has improved significantly in the last 2-3 seasons in terms of eliminating errors and bringing his goal kicking up to a 80%+.

    With that said, he's still prone to playing off the cuff in an unpredictable manner that those around him struggle to gel with at times. There's always a risk/reward element with him. It will really depend on what the coaches are looking for.

    I think he definitely travels but I'd stop short of saying he's the comfortable frontrunner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Whatever about his attacking game (which is fairly solid without being spectacular), I don't think there's a better full back in the world at this point or close to it without the ball than Keenan.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I'm running out of superlatives for Keenan. So I'm going to have to use a soccer comparison. He's this teams Denis Irwin.

    Vital. No weaknesses. Great positioning. Excellent at most things. Under the radar. Reliable. Durable. Consistent. Rarely if ever below an 8 out 10 in every game.

    I make it that he's now played (Excl RWC Warm-ups) in 36 of Irelands past 38 games.

    I wouldn't swap him for any FB in 6N history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    It still makes me nervous though, how light any of the alternatives are on minutes.

    JOB is probably next in terms of minutes there. Then who? Larmour?

    Maybe Frawley should get some time there if his job is to be the super sub for everyone anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Weve 3 other provinces with fullbacks we can look at also 🤣


    Hansens played a bit there this season



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Russell never shows up against Irish sides, I'd love to see his record against our teams. I find it difficult to rate him because of that. Even in his acclaimed performances he seems to put the opposition under his own posts once or twice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,381 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Let's get Crowley out of the way first. He showed great awareness while carrying, he tried some audacious stuff that didn't work out but it affected the game by making French defenders slow down so as not to get caught out. Defensively he tackled well and was very aware of everything going on at the breakdown.

    It was the best out-half performance of the weekend.

    We are blessed to have so many consistent players and for me the first three are Keenan, Beirne and Doris. They have an incredibly high level every game. Dan Sheehan is another and our whole front row. Peter O'Mahony had a period a couple of years ago where he didn't look as good as previously but he's been back to his best for the last twelve months. Hopefully Crowley will become a a member of that consistently high level group.

    Imagine having James Ryan, Kelleher, Bealham and Baird on the bench and Mack Hansen out. Things are looking really good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,381 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Finn Russell looks sublime when he's on a good day but awful on a bad day and he has nearly as many bad as he has good ones.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Connacht have played Hansen at fullback a few times this season but wing is his best position. The extra responsibilities mean he doesn't get to roam into playmaking positions as often and our backfield control isn't as good with him there. We could probably solve all that by playing him there full time but it would take a while.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Larmour was Farrell's initial 15 in his first game or 2, but then with the Covid break and Keenan's form, I'm not sure he's gotten much time since? I think Lowry might've played 15 more recently than him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Hey I'm all for having as few Leinster players in the team as possible but in this case, I don't know that we have a better option. It's actually part of the reason I thought Zebo had a very outside shot at the squad. Maybe Daly might make it in at some point? Or Haley if he gets into form when he comes back.


    Hansen if probably on the contingency list aright, but he's only played a game or two there and also isn't in the current squad



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    That sounds about right. From memory, it didn't go great for Larmour either. Himself and Stockdale seemed to get into trouble quite a lot.

    Lowery hasn't been in a team for a while either, whether that's through injury or selection.



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