Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It has been mentioned on here for months. There were just under 700 civilians killed on Oct 7th. Hamas obviously killed a load of them. Some were killed by IDF and other Israelis as a result of the confusion and chaos and panic, and other bodies were retrieved from vehicles which were struck, while being taken back to Gaza as hostages, under the Hannibal directive

Yes - a distinct change of tone today - the UNWRA announcement was a dead giveaway and complete about turn.

I think they think if they do nothing, ICJ will give them a hard time. So they need to save face.

With all the video coming out - even without journalists and with attempts to silence Comms infrastructure - the evidence appears incontrovertible. But if they make sure no more cans of worms are opened in the next few weeks, maybe their monthly report won't be as bad a wreck as it appears it will be.

I'd imagine the Israeli ad hoc judge is mortified.

No reported news from the ICC - that will be next.

Which war was this?

You are being deliberately obtuse imo.

There was a civil war between Arabs and Jews in British Palestine, for sure, but the wider conflict between Israel and Arab states was a separate thing.

It's like saying WWII didn't start when Germany invaded Poland, September 1939, but started when the Germans took over the Sudetenland in October 1938

Because it's true as documented in history by many historians.

From Britannica.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Arab-Israeli-wars

The US State Dept. Office of the Historian.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Even Pro-Palestine AJ conceeds this point.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/23/the-nakba-did-not-start-or-end-in-1948

Cambridge University Press. Avi Shlaim

https://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/Israel%20and%20the%20Arab%20Coalition%20in%2019481.html

I do agree it's complex, but some things are just true.

The Arab states invaded Israel in 1948 because they would never accept a Jewish state on their border. That is an inalienable truth.

Maybe because it takes one truth, that there may have been some friendly fire and runs into the burning inferno of a conspiracy theory.\

Any dickhead with a camera and microphone is now a 'journalist' and they usually push their own agenda to people who want to believe some conspiracy theory or some such.

Grade A nonsense in fairness.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, said Carl Sagan once.

I guess the Israeli hostages were a false flag too.

Releasing the hostages is a priority, whether that is by the IDF extracting them or Israel/Hamas agreeing terms.

Pressuring Hamas by razing Gaza clearly hasn't, nor will, work. Israel cannot simply carry on killing more and more civilians until there is just nothing left though a la Ben Gvir et al.

Terms appear to be the only sure method. It sounds like Israel is studying the Hamas response so it should be clear soon.

If they reject the terms, God knows what's next.

The only pressure it seems can be put on Hamas is to wipe them out. But that simply cannot be at the expense of civilians.They've paid too high a price already.

And yes, that is a difficulty for Israel.

Well now isn't that just the kettle calling the pot black :rolleyes:

Israel doesn't target hospitals

Going back to influence on and of the media, has anyone else noticed constant short clips from Schindler's List on their youtube suggestions? It was like that the last few months and now has moved to The Pianist (a film I've never seen).

Even fake news CNN re-published a 2017 documentary yesterday about Islamic terrorism in Europe.

The reality is he is going to be killed, one way or another. Whether it's in a tunnel now with a suicide vest strapped on or via a drone strike to a building he's in, or something more close up and personal, Israel is going to see him dead. And anyone else connected with the planning and execution of the 07-Oct pogrom.

Israel's doctrine in this regard has been clear for decades now.

Much as we asked the question 'what does Iran want?', we should also ask the question 'what does Russia want?'. Bearing in mind that Russia has far more strategic reach than Iran.

Russia is at war with 'the West'. This war takes many forms - from outright invasion in Ukraine, to asymmetric warfare such as trying to rig elections and referenda, through to aiding other regimes that are opposed to Western interests. You can see this most starkly in everything they perpetrated in Syria, where they murdered tens of thousands of Sunni Arab civilians in order to help their ally Assad stay in power. Including quite a lot of Palestinian refugees.

So make no mistake, Russia is absolutely delighted with the current turn of events in the Middle East. It distracts from what they are doing in Ukraine and indeed has been enormously successful - witness the craziness on Capitol Hill yesterday where the Republicans rejected a border bill that gave them everything they wanted, just so that they wouldn't have to approve more aid to Ukraine. All at the behest of one Donald J Trump who might as well have 'SVR Asset bought and sold' tattooed on his orange forehead.

Russia and Iran are our enemies. They are anathema to everything we stand for and we should be entirely vigilant in recognising both their means and their objectives. Hamas is just one of the means.

They are the same to the extent that they support terrorism.

The difference is one is amenable to western interests and does not seek to oppose the west so they get a pass. If it was really about principle Qatar would be condemned and threatened with sanctions for their support of Hamas.

Yes that is their doctrine and they are very effective at it. The Hamas Leadership will want immunity as part of any long term deal, but I can't see Israel agreeing to it. Erdoğan has warned Israel not to target any Hamas figures in Istanbul. I don't see them heeding that warning . Operation grapes of Wrath went on for years. This one will too

Its not in Bibi's interest for the war to stop as it could lead to his far right friends collapsing the current Government, that is why if he has his way any truce will be temporary.