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After leaving cert holiday mess

  • 07-02-2024 6:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Hi,

    My son and 10 pals agreed to go to Portugal on a holiday after leaving cert. 11 lads all paid 60 euro deposit each out of total of 720 per head.

    One lad went forward as the "booker"/lead passenger and my son (even though I warned him not to three times!!!) collected the deposits and put his bank card on the booking.

    Everybody was warned it was non-refundable but of course a couple of them decided then to cancel... and then two of their closer friends decided to cancel leaving 7.

    It was booked through xxxxholidays and the upshot is the Ts and Cs state 75 euro cancellation per booking plus flights are non-refundable. One of the rooms for 4 can be cancelled free of charge. Three lads that pulled out are refusing to pay as be 400 each for their cancellation. (One is being sound about it and said he will pay as he signed up to it).

    Long story short there are rows now and even if the other 7 want to go ahead xxxxholidays pushing the price up.

    I am now going to have to get involved and try sort it, approach xxxxholidays, other parents etc... nightmare. But I know this has been going back and forth between them and needs a "real" adult to get involved (some of them are 18, some 17) Any thoughts on best approach to take? Uggh.

    Anyone had dealings with xxxxholidays on cancellations? Can the flights not be cancelled directly to the airline (will definitely be resold). Can you even sell a holiday to a 17 year old without parental involvement?

    In my opinion the lads that pulled out should suck it up as they signed up but that's an awkward conversation with the parents some of whom I don't even know.

    Post edited by Pawwed Rig on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭whippet


    Best approach ... be prepared to be pissed off and lower your expectations as to what the outcome will be.

    it will be a quick life lesson for your young lad.

    by all means talk to the travel agent and see what the best case scenario is ... however they work off razor thin margins so expect them to stick to their terms and conditions so ensure you read them and understand them.

    contact the parents if you wish to .. don't expect to make friends and anything they offer be grateful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Yeah, I'm not expecting much joy from them to be honest but will see if they will be kind about it and see if can come to some arrangement. Otherwise thinking I will be contacting all parents directly and asking for the cash. Not willing to have my kid (or me) cover for a lad who says hes not paying because he has to buy his 200 euro longitude ticket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 838 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    I have been in a similar situation for a house share, signing for bills and then people fupping off when I was younger. Dont solve it let him work it out himself and call it a learning experience. It could be a very valuable life lesson. Being responsible for other peoples money aint fun and its stressful when "horses buck at the gate".



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Yeah. I have been standing off for two weeks and checking in with him on progress. There hasn't been much tbh (just rows and even threats). I think he has already learned a lesson tbh and it is a good test of friends and acquaintances etc but he is really worried now they are on the hook for upwards of 7 grand and he and the lead booker are left holding the baby.. he's a good kid and worked hard in a part time job for the few quid he has, saving for a car etc so I'm going to try help out. Also doing LC so doesn't need the hassle. Plus one of the lads that pulled out is being a total **** about it. Don't want to jump the gun but a lesson in small claims may be in order... hopefully won't come to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    So they have all paid a deposit to the travel agent. Has anything else been paid?

    Can they not all back out losing €60 each? What's the point of a deposit if you're obligated to pay the rest? I'd also be getting tough with the travel agent to sort it out for the lads who genuinely want to go and give the agent some business.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Yeah, so far only 60 per head paid but the Ts and Cs state that all flights and transfers are non-refundable from time of booking confirmation... even accommodation in some cases!! Seems crazy to me that you can potentially hold someone to cost of full price of a holiday you want to cancel but I guess that's how they make the cash selling holidays on tick with tough get out clauses.

    Young lads concern is next installment for everybody of 160 each is due on 16th.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    That's bizarre alright. Don't understand how flights can be non-refundable if they haven't paid for them yet. Presumably he has signed something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    They re non refundable so their just going to lose the €60 each. Let them cancel and re book with whoever wants to go. Love holidays will have €720

    I presume the booking hasn't been confirmed until they ve actually paid in full for them ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    It's difficult for me to understand completely as I need to get all of the emails/correspondence off the lad who did the booking but my understanding so far is that you are entering an agreement to pay when booking is confirmed and that confirmation happens when deposit is paid.

    That's why I want to see everything and talk to them. There may be things lost in the fact that they were making a deal with a bunch of 17 and 18 year old.

    It seems they are not like an old fashioned travel agent selling package holidays but are going and booking the accommodation and flights separately like you would yourself but they are doing the legwork... dunno...

    What I do know is that they have told them they would need to pay full cost of flights and said they would have to pay the accommodation too if they all pulled out... but then they were able to say one room could be cancelled free if 4 pulled out but flights would still have to be paid.

    They were sent a booking ref for Aer Lingus but you can only manage the flights through the third party (loveholidays) according to aer lingus website.

    There is also 4 17 year olds in the group and I just read you cannot enter/leave Portugal as an under 18 without a stamped approval letter from parents/guardian or something.

    So how can they even sell holidays to groups of 17 year olds. Whole setup seems weird to me .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    They are not a traditional travel agent, selling package holidays - they are an online agent.

    I bet they have booked the flights on Ryanair or Aer Lingus website, and they are non-refundable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,090 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Is cancelling his card an option?



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    He was smart enough to use Revolut card so he could just bale but that would leave his mate that put the name on the booking in the s**t and they prob chase him for it so not really an option he wants to take.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,174 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Genuinely OP, this is what the deposit is for! Tell them to cancel the whole thing and rebook with someone else and there won't be another word about it. What are they going to do, sue 11 young lads for stuff they can resell in a heartbeat?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭Bummer1234


    Thats bad form on the other "pals", If all fails I wonder is there a local notice board on facebook or selling page to your area Inkers92? Could they try sell the spaces to others that is perhaps debating about going away themselves.(They would have to change the name on the flights aswel but might be a few euro back).

    I was dealing with Loveholidays just when covid lockdowns kicked in and it was a nightmare, Now they where probably inundated at the time compared to now but only reason I got my refund was because flights was cancelled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭Fian


    This is not correct. They are legally liable for what they signed up to pay, not the deposit, the whole of the outstanding amount due. I would suggest you try to get as many as possible to pay what they owe and do not suggest to them that they can walk away with a €60 loss if it is your son whose card or name is on the booking.


    At the time the contract was entered into was your son one of those who was 17 or was he 18? those who were 17 can escape the contract. It is likely that the T&Cs impose the liability for the full outstanding amount (not just "their fair share") on those others. If a single one of them entered the contract then the legal liability (as opposed to the moral liability) may fall entirely on that person. I don't know what the terms and conditions of the contract are of course or how many entered into it.


    Best case scenario : one child entered the contract, that person was 17 at the time, you can all walk away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,331 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    They're a great company and it's more of an installment plan than a deposit, they book your flights hotels and transfers so hard for them to back out I'm sure. I doubt Ryanair will refund the company



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,393 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Sounds a plan, let them know that shirking their responsibilities is ok. They entered a contract, they should pay, tough. If his friends are sticking the bill with him, he needs to learn from this unfortunately.

    Welcome to fake modern adulthood (with parental protection from the real world)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Absolutely , no idea how the company seems to be getting any stick whatsoever in the thread. Anything myself or my brother have booked with them have been I’d say on average 35% cheaper and better value than anywhere else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Yes, I'm inclined to agree with this. Even from a future credit perspective and you need to learn some problems you can't run from.

    The guy that booked is 18. The reason I am focusing on the 17 year olds is three of four that are cancelling are 17.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    No stick for the company here. They have a product they sell. I've never used it before so no idea how good or bad that is. One thing that should be clear is there should be extra diligence given when they are dealing with what are essentially large children when they are signing up for things to ensure they understand. Is firing out a pdf with Ts and Cs as an attachment on an email enough (for any customer) or should that be more explicitly stated (maybe they do that I've never spoken to them).



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭brookers


    Exact same thing happened my sister in law, booked flights and concert tickets for a trip to Germany for her son and a load of mates who went to a fee paying well known rugby posh school, many of them pulled out leaving her to pay for everything, the mates were bad, the parents were beyond horrible, said nothing to do with them, refused to pay.....my sister in law must have said to us a million times do not get involved with paying for anything for anybody in your kids school. Personally I would pay up if my kid cancelled out as that was the way I was brought up but some people out there now have absolutely no shame......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,331 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    It's a down payment though, you pay it and you instantly get your flights and hotels , i doubt their partners would refund love holidays



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Yeah like do the take date of births at time of booking? I’d have thought not. Feel like most things online dont ask if you are over 18 unless it’s an obvious product. I think firing out T & Cs should be enough tbh. If I was booking something I wasn’t sure I’d use I’d be reading the T & Cs , I know it’s different in this case as it’s a bunch of young fellas. Hopefully they get sorted. Easiest might be to just find 3 more bodies, the prices will go up so I’d imagine they’ll get takers



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,174 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Ahhhh I thought it was a deposit! Ok well with that in mind I hopped onto their website to look at their T&C's and it clearly states in there that to cancel, you have to pay a €75 fee for a package holiday and have 100% liability for flights and transfers. So my suggestion to the OP is to have the lead booker do this, work out the amount it's going to cost the 11 lads to get out of this and get that fee off them, it would be better than being on the hook for the entire 7k!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    I warned him but you know excitement and enthusiasm of youth and not cynical or burned enough yet!! To be fair I haven't spoken to loveholidays or other parents yet (who may not even be aware). I'm gonna do that some time today and will certainly revert back with any outcomes.. at least so others may be warned in future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    They did take all names and dobs and sent back the list for confirmation so they knew some were 17.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    They have literally turned 18 mate and you are suggesting he sorts it himself with no parental support. Even adults help each other at times. Glad you're not my da. Give it a rest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Yeah that’s an interesting legal one alright I suppose!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Surely they only enter a contract with the lead booker? And if that person is 18 then they are covered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92




  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Grey123


    I suspect it's the booker who is liable, not your son. Obviously your son doesn't want to leave it all to him. Could cancel the card just to be sure / have control over what and when it's being paid.

    Any other people on the trip have no relation with the company, may as well be kids on a family holiday.

    What did the booker or your son communicate to the others, did they say it was just €60 they would lose or did they all know they were entering a payment play.

    If they were told it was just €60 to hold a place and are now being chased for a few hundred I can understand their point of view to a degree. They might not have even seen any contract.

    Important (and costly) life lessons here and unfortunately young to have to make them. Can understand you supporting given exams.

    Dealt with this stuff with house shares and organizing stags but you learn to protect yourself financially and be clear in what is communicated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Yeah that’s true of course. Would be like a family trying to say they aren’t liable cause they booked a family hollier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Yes I would think booker is the responsible on paper and I don't think anyone went through the ts and Cs although they are all available and my son said this was told by company in fairness to them.. the booker did ask for 100 per cent commitment on a group chat but you know yourself... so nobody took the time to do the checking you would normally do as an adult would.

    Not inclined to leave one kid hang out to dry on it... I think at worst if they have to cough up which seems likely the problem should be socialised across the group and everyone pays what they committed to... seems fair right? But we all know it won't be that easy either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    So this is essentially commit upfront to pay for the holiday in full but we’ll help you with easy instalments? ie is a contract now in place, underwritten with a credit card?

    You mentioned I think a revolute card somewhere? Would need to see how easy or difficult it is to back out of this deal in terms of the practicalities of cancelling the payment method - you’re either locked in for the full amount or you’re simply booked but with the option of cancelling and losing some or all deposits.

    Sorry if mentioned already You really need to see the T&Cs email sent when booking first - that will give you the state of play.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,820 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    No refundable doesn’t mean they have to pay anything extra. It’s the deposits they won’t get back.





  • On a point of age, I did my LC way back in 1978, just turned 17, and commenced work whilst still 17. I was booking my own trips etc at that stage. There’s no issue about a 17 year being responsible for own purchases, booking own travel, and managing my own finances.

    However, handling money/payments for others can be an absolute nightmare even as an experienced adult, let alone a young person launching in life! I feel very sorry for the lad. I would be very business-like with the other lads/parents. Maybe help him draft up a polite, reasonable, but formal letter to the lads who won’t pay and to their parents. Would help him develop a business-like approach to life, whether or not it works in getting the money back.

    Regarding companies like LoveHolidays, their business model is “loaning” you money to pay for flight/accommodation packages, where if you approached airline directly you’d have to pay the lot up front. As a poster above says, they work on tight margins.

    TBH when booking packages for pals like that it is better to price up own flights first, get friends to give you the approximate amount of money needed for the booking (the fares change somewhat as per airline algorithms) before proceeding with the bookings. At least the friends have then committed a lot to the trip. If the friends don’t pay up front, they’re not in, or they can later go make their own flight arrangements. After that arrange the accommodation with booking.com or wherever with possibility of relatively last minute cancellation.

    You live and learn!



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Grey123



    Ya I guess it depends what excuses the others are coming back with? Is it they don't have the money? Didn't believe they had fully committed? Or are they just blindly saying they won't pay and maybe don't care about the friendship.

    Are you suggesting that the remaining 7 cover the costs of the other 4? Or is it 8 covering 3 if would will pay. The group dynamics probably matter here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭claregal1


    Love holidays are great to deal with tbf. I use them all the time. If you get the login details from the lead booker you can amend the booking although the 70 deposit they all paid is non refundable .

    I once had to cancel a booking to Rome. Lost the price of the flights but got the full hotel amount back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Grey123



    I think that is the lesson for anyone from this. Someone isn't 100% in until they have paid.

    Love Holidays model has worked against the OPs son here unfortunately. I've taken hotel payments from groups in advance even though payment isn't due till check out.

    Far easier to figure out what you can give back than if someone cancels than trying to collect.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Here's what I'm thinking:

    Call loveholidays first explain the situation and see if they can do anything. If yes happy days. If no:

    Option 1: 7 lads still go, four cancel get breakdown of costs

    Option 2: everyone cancels get breakdown of costs

    Option 3: find four lads to take place of others and understand price difference/breakdown for that

    Option 4: Leave the booking as is and four cancelled do a no show and see if that is cheaper actually than cancelling

    Ask for a stay on payment until some resolution is found, Option is agreed

    Then bring this to the other lads/parents and get their input. See what happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    To be honest, I would have suggested 'Call loveholidays first explain the situation and see if they can do anything.' as the very first thing, even before putting up a post here.

    Many businesses rely on personal recommendations and willing to try and sort such matters out as they don't want to be bad mouthed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Inkers92


    Fair point, although you will see I have never once criticised them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Hmm... https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732662/#Comment_121732662

    You kinda suggested you aren't expecting much joy from them..........

    Anyways, phone up and explain - surely it's not that uncommon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    They’ll likely only speak to the person making the original booking so they’ll need to be present also - but yeah if there’s talking to be done I reckon the OP is the person most capable of sorting this out in a cost effective manner.

    Id be looking to cancel everything- all deposits gone obviously but that’s the cheaper option as I’d say more people will start backing out- what probably sounded like a good idea at the time obviously isn’t a runner now - I don’t think people will be done out of 100s but that’s reliant on all paying the booking deposit at least

    As for notifying parents, you could end up looking stupid if you word the message wrong - I’m assuming this is about honour and word to friends, not about some parent underwriting the cost of the booking and then getting stuck with it?

    If they’re real friends, they should just pay up what’s owed to date- however if they weren’t informed on T&Cs, it’s gonna be a tougher ask - if they were all asked for a non refundable deposit of X and some didn’t pay, then they should be chased for that money-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    OP look at the t&cs on the website - it might give you some idea of the road ahead - I think the important thing at this point is to somehow remove the payment method - it looks like potentially they’ll try automatically to take payment (which would be normal and fine) so there’s an urgency now to all of this

    Read down the page there’s a load of different scenarios and good luck figuring out which one relates to your booking - but it looks like the original booker is in for a tough time in terms of cancellation charges with up to 100% of flights charged out - you really need to back out of this as best you can- I see name changes cost 25 euro - I’ll bet you some of the names are not as their passports-


    Also- I reckon you’ll need a card in place before you attempt cancellation as the system will likely not proceed without it -

    All requests to cancel must be submitted via 'Manage My Booking' where you will be made aware of any cancellation charges and you must agree to these charges in order to proceed with the cancellation.

    https://www.loveholidays.ie/about-us/terms-and-conditions.html

    Payment by instalments: If you have chosen the option to spread the cost of your booking(s), all instalments must be paid by the date specified at the time of making the booking. Unless otherwise specified, we will automatically (if possible) take payment from the same debit/credit card used to pay your deposit. If full payment is not received (for whatever reason) by the Balance Due Date, we will notify the Service Provider who may cancel your booking and charge the cancellation fees set out in their booking conditions. In the event of non-payment, the booking(s) may be cancelled – please refer to the cancellation policy. It is always your responsibility to ensure your balance is paid by the Balance Due Date.

    Post edited by Oscar_Madison on




  • I’ve just booked arrangements between myself and a friend for a two centre long haul exotic destination, worked out that I paid the air fares up front, and she immediately reimbursed me. A person with very trustworthy credentials, but “friends” of any age have the potential to let you down very badly . So I made sure to ask her did she have money in her account or very shortly to be in her account before going ahead. Keeping it both business-like and friendly.





  • Very few people are real friends, a fact of life unfortunately. That’s why you have to be somewhat “mercenary”, honourable people will keenly honour a debt asap. That lad who wants instead to keep the money for the ticket to the concert, well fook him I say. He owes your lad the money, he should sacrifice the concert. Honour is important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    From reading the T&Cs on the website, it’s clear this will be problematic - the original booker is possibly in hoc for 1000s - depending on how the company collects debts owed - speaking to the company directly may help but in terms of the flights it looks like they’re as good as paid for - I think a meeting with the whole group or what’s left of the group along with parents is called for - the parents of the guy who made the booking would be your first port of call as essentially the booking is in his name and he has most to lose (assuming your sons revolute card can’t be used right now)



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Samantha Lemon Undergarment


    Who the f*ck picks Longitude over a holiday abroad with the lads?

    The lineup looks (Doja) cat to boot.



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