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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #30482
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733397#Comment_121733397

    Dalys not the calibur needed i think. Stewart moore in ulster worth a look or hansen. They fit us better



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    #30483
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733300#Comment_121733300

    This is a huge part of it - going back to the 2016/17 season, across 26 games against either Ireland or the provinces he has won 8, drawn 1 and lost 17 (65%).

    His wins came against Ulster (this season, 2018/19 season), Connacht (20/21, 17/18 and 16/17) and Munster (19/20 & 17/18), and once against Ireland (back in 2016/17). He had one draw against Munster while at Racing (19/20 season).

    In 8 games against us at international level, he's lost 7 times (currently 7 on the bounce) and he's lost every time he's faced Leinster.



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    #30484
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Daly seems pretty solid and assured any time he's played 15 (and I think his initial selections for Irelands came off the back of him playing 15 in those August Covid games) but he's primarily a winger now so that could go against him.

    JOB has been a more-than-capable stand-in, and with Keenan's durability (touch wood) I think we're relatively ok for cover there.



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    #30485
    ionadnapokot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733228#Comment_121733228

    Me too!

    Probably JOB. Hansen could do the job but he's the starting winger.

    Plus It's a massive ask to play FB at international/6N level if not regularly playing in that position for the province.

    But with JOB, Hansen and prob Ringrose all out for the rest of the 6N. It's Frawley & the 6-2 split.


    Actually...maybe Frawley start at 15 v Italy? - I'm not 'keen' on the idea myself



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    #30486
    AdamD
    Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Haley could well be the second best 15 in the country, don't think he's ever been called up though.



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    #30487
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732677#Comment_121732677

    Russell is probably the most naturally talented 10 playing at the moment , but he is also an arrogant flake.

    Just see the Wales game last weekend as a classic example - Does all kinds of wonderful things in the 1st half and then tunes out , gets the hump with his team mates and winds up the referee for the entire 2nd half.

    And with Russell, that kind of "check-out" is a far far too regular occurrence for him to ever be considered a "great".



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    #30488
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733523#Comment_121733523

    He was in an initial squad early doors iirc, but was never called up beyond that I think.

    With Keenan far and away 1st, choice, I think it's unlikely we were going to bring a back-up player that just plays 15 to the RWC, so the gametime was better off given to others. That line of thinking might have come into it.



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    #30489
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733488#Comment_121733488

    Seems pretty meaningless. How many times did BOD lose to New Zealand or Sergio Parisse to... everyone?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #30490
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Haley is a very good player but I think he's very different to the type of player that Farrell wants. Whilst Keenan is incredible without the ball, he's well able to pass and link with those around him in attack and gets his hands on the ball a lot. I don't think Haley is able to throw a pass like Keenan did for Hansen's try against Scotland last season i.e. 20m skip off his left. Or maybe he is but his first instinct is to pick a line and run it back which he's very good at.

    The likes of JOB and Hansen are more footballing options who can pop up around the field and link with their wingers which is why I'd suspect they're the preferences for the back up full back spot ahead of those not in the squad.



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    #30491
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733528#Comment_121733528

    Arrogant and 10 go together almost as well as Mouthy and 9!



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    #30492
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732889#Comment_121732889

    I said as much in the match thread, he just seems to be in the right position at the right time, usually when I see a two on one I'm waiting for the attacking team to make an error but with Keenan I've come to expect him to spoil their party



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    #30493
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733639#Comment_121733639

    He's been a major part though of a lot of those losses - I don't think anyone anywhere disputes his talent. When he's focused and on his game, he's one of the very best out halves in the world.

    But he is indisputably flaky - he drifts in and out of games, loses focus, forces silly options that aren't on, and generally finds new and creative ways to hurt his teams. Coupled with a good track record of being disruptive and unfocused off the field, I think that all filters through to a lot of Irish people's bemusement at how he's always held up as this world class player, when too often he's a good bit short of that.



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    #30494
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733651#Comment_121733651

    In the world Cup Squad it was definitely JOB and Hansen, but we're seeing now that we can end up without either of them available.

    It looks like it was Frawley last week. Maybe if Harry Byrne was in the match day then Crowley covers 15. I'd still feel better knowing that there was someone training there with fewer split responsibilities.



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    #30495
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733687#Comment_121733687

    I don't really believe Scotland/Glasgow/Racing would have won any of those games with someone else at FH but there's no way of knowing.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #30496
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733639#Comment_121733639

    To be fair, many Kiwis would have used that as a reason to talk down BOD.

    Russell is just a perfect microcosm of the whole Scotland team in terms of blowing hot and cold and being somewhat mentally fragile. It's not even so much that he always loses against Irish teams, I don't recall him ever playing spectacularly well.



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    #30497
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Haley is a really good player imo. He's exceptional positionally. I don't think he's going to tear it up going forward but if he happened to start an international at 15 I wouldn't be overly concerned.



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    #30498
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733732#Comment_121733732

    Finn Russell is "the girl the with curl"

    "When he is good , he is very very good , but when he is bad he is horrid"

    His priority is for him to have a good game , not the team so he'll look to throw the glory pass every single time etc.

    Those come off against the lesser teams , but they don't work against the better ones and when they don't come off he doesn't tighten things up and play pragmatically , he tunes out and gets petulant.



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    #30499
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    That's the narrative peddled around here, anyway. I haven't seen anything to illustrate it of late though.



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    #30500
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733228#Comment_121733228

    Possibly Shane Daly. He's played a bit for Munster at fb.



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    #30501
    ulsteru20s
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    My impression of Russell is he is way way too good for scotland and they would be a lot worse without him. Is he fully realizing his potential? Probably not.



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    #30502
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,760 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Oli Jager into the Ireland squad proper



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    #30503
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734287#Comment_121734287

    Yeah I rate him alright, but he's not making the squad at this point.

    I just don't like having all our eggs in one basket, even if it is a very very talented basket.



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    #30504
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The boat has probably sailed for Stockdale and Larmour as full backs. I watched Hanson play at full back a few weeks ago and I thought he was poor. Minus Keenan, I think you have to look at Haley or JOB. I doubt that Frawley would be a good international fb. I'd go with Daly in a pinch.



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    #30505
    Brief_Lives
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    I would go with Haley first.. Daly, no way.



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    #30506
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,439 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Frawley, JOB and perhaps Osbourne in the future would be the most likely back up 15s if something happened to Keenan. They check the boxes in terms of how they play the game and playmaking abilities



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    #30507
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Mike lowry has been a phenomenal spark at 15 also but hasnt played much this year



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    #30508
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Has Keenan been ruled out or what?


    For me, Haley is the direct replacement if Keenan isn't available, if Keenan starts then Haley doesn't cover enough positions to bench.



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    #30509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735406#Comment_121735406

    Keenan has a minor knock but is training and expected to be fit.



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    #30510
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735406#Comment_121735406

    I thought we were just speculating. Someone said how good he was, then I brought up that I was worried about who his replacement is.



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    #30511
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭Happyhouse22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733523#Comment_121733523

    He was actually due to be called up to the World Cup standby list but had to turn down a place as had already undergone elective surgery during the summer.

    This standby list was never made public so no idea how many names were on it, but shows the Irish selectors rate him to some extent at least



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