Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Plenty of posts to that effect here showing protests against Netanyahu, inside Israel and around the world, especially in the US.

Jewish people are as empathetic (or not) as any others.

So you admit that Hamas is using the hostages as human shields and as a bargaining chip, despite the ICJ stating they should be released immediately.

Do you agree that Hamas should release the hostages immediately?

So despite Hamas committing a war crime in taking hostages, and committing another one using them as human shields, and despite the ICJ stating explicitly that they should all be released ASAP, you disagree and think that Hamas should keep them?

Wow!

Well, at least you are honest.

But then, any talk about the ICJ or international law and obligations for the IDF falls flat when that is the position. You cannot have it both ways.

Do you mean they (Jews) should all act in unison as if they are one homogenous mind?

But you are wanting it both ways. My position is at worst equally hypocritical as yours, but seeing as Israel has been ignoring the rulings on settlements for years, I would argue yours is more hypocritical.

I have been clear on settlements in the West Bank.

They should stop and it doesn't help the situation. I wish the Israeli people after this war has ended successfully in getting rid of Hamas, elect a more thoughtful government where new settlements stop being built.

However, Hamas need to release the hostages today, without any condition.

Well they've blown up nearly every other building, it didn't damage itself so the fact they were finishing the job doesn't make this any better.

I don't know, that is all subjective, but it seems you are coming around to the idea that the Tweet you posted as misinformation.

Those arrested under Israeli law are arrested and imprisoned under the laws of a sovereign democratic state, and that is not a war crime.

The taking of hostages by terrorists on October 7th is a war crime.

Remember my position on this from the very start has been that the release of the hostages by Hamas is the single most important thing to stop this war. The second most important is the handing over by Hamas of those responsible for the war crimes. Once those two acts happen, anything the Israelis do after that loses the cover of being in self-defence. At no time have I condoned what Israel has done, I have pointed to how it is in legitimate self-defence under international law until proven otherwise.

Leo Varadkar made an interesting point on radio this morning, when he said that if the ICJ finds Israel innocent of genocide (a likely outcome in my mind, given the legal requirements), South Africa will find itself as the country which has wrongly accused Israel of genocide.

I agree, and that in of itself is a bit of a mess and I guess would be part of any long-standing peace agreement with the Palestinians.

That isn't contained in any international Treaty and has no force of law.

How about this which basically says the same thing which is legally binding.

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

ADOPTED

16 December 1966

BY

General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI)

Article 9

1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention. No one shall be deprived of his liberty except on such grounds and in accordance with such procedure as are established by law.

2. Anyone who is arrested shall be informed, at the time of arrest, of the reasons for his arrest and shall be promptly informed of any charges against him.

3. Anyone arrested or detained on a criminal charge shall be brought promptly before a judge or other officer authorized by law to exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time or to release. It shall not be the general rule that persons awaiting trial shall be detained in custody, but release may be subject to guarantees to appear for trial, at any other stage of the judicial proceedings, and, should occasion arise, for execution of the judgement.

4. Anyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention shall be entitled to take proceedings before a court, in order that that court may decide without delay on the lawfulness of his detention and order his release if the detention is not lawful.

5. Anyone who has been the victim of unlawful arrest or detention shall have an enforceable right to compensation.

Article 10

1. All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person.

2.

(a) Accused persons shall, save in exceptional circumstances, be segregated from convicted persons and shall be subject to separate treatment appropriate to their status as unconvicted persons;

(b) Accused juvenile persons shall be separated from adults and brought as speedily as possible for adjudication.

3. The penitentiary system shall comprise treatment of prisoners the essential aim of which shall be their reformation and social rehabilitation. Juvenile offenders shall be segregated from adults and be accorded treatment appropriate to their age and legal status.

You mean like ISIS, Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah would drive the Jews into the sea if they could get away with it?

The ICJ did not rule Hamas were in breach of anything.