Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Porter definitely has a bad rep at this stage but hes also still scrummaging poorly tbh. You cant just dismiss all refs and take bothas word as gospel. Hes invaluable to us around the pitch so worth his spot but hes not a good scrummager

By their own admission, his role is broader than you’re claiming it is here. You could get any ref anywhere to do the relatively simple task you’re claiming they’ve hired him for, the reason you go and get a guy like Peyper is for his relationships and perspective on current refs.

I’m not claiming he’s going to be slipping brown envelopes to referees before games or anything - I’m saying he’s been hired to be the squad’s liaison to the referees, and IMO it’s inappropriate that he can step down as a referee and immediately step into that role.

The notion that the South Africans should be above all suspicion or that they wouldn’t do something to try and eke out an advantage is nothing short of naïveté.

During the 2021 Lions tour one of the charges against Erasmus was he threatened the officiating team that if they didn’t facilitate a meeting with him he would release a video, which of course he subsequently did.

Eramsus was accused (with charges upheld) of threatening Nic Berry to surreptitiously meet with him, and during that process Erasmus “recruited Jaco Peyper to try to arrange a meeting with Berry”.

That’s right there in black and white in the World Rugby decision on the 2021 matter.

Have a read of this, and specifically scroll down to points 41 and 42 of the Chronology (page 64) on Peyper’s influence peddling role in that affair.

It's obviously an impossible thing to prove - but it is worth noting that the South Africans managed to turn that series around from an opening test defeat, and

It was the same trio who shared the refereeing duties across the three tests then because of COVID, so Erasmus was absolutely trying to change the way they refereed his team.

In the first test (Lions win 22-17), the penalty count was SA 14 Lions 8.

By the second test, (SA win 27-9), the penalty count flipped and was SA 10 Lions 15. On the match review of the second test, a Guardian report notes "the big calls didn't go the Lions' way". The crucial try, by Lukhanyo Am was incredibly controversial (he didn't get his hands on it), was described in reporting as a "very marginal call" with Nigel Owens publicly saying the try shouldn't have been given. There was also a hugely significant decision not to send off Cheslin Kolbe for taking out Conor Murray in the air, and a disallowed try for Robbie Henshaw. Kolbe also got away with another blatant head high hit on Tom Curry early in the game too.

In the third and decisive test (SA win 19-16), the count was SA 12 Lions 15. There were less visibly contentious incidents in this one, but there was still a big reversal from the first test around scrum perception and a couple of other issues.

It's absolutely reasonable to speculate that the pressure Erasmus put on the refereeing team (and this was speculated by multiple commentators at the time) had influenced them in this series. For Erasmus and the SA press, the ends justified the means in that they won the series.

It wasn't through normal channels.

There was nothing normal or ordinary about Rassie calling Jaco Peyper (who wasn't part of the 4 person refereeing team for the first test in 2021) and asking him to speak to Nic Berry on his behalf.

Erasmus initially was trying to pressure Peyper (and did the same with SA ref AJ Jacobs) to comment publicly on the refereeing in the first test (and the clips Erasmus had highlighted), which Peyper refused to do. Peyper told Nic Berry "Rassie is putting AJ Jacobs under pressure to comment on the clips...".

Peyper did reach out to Berry though, and suggest to him he respond to Erasmus' clips.

Peyper subsequently lied about the contents of the call with Berry - the disciplinary panel said "We considered with care the evidence of Jacob Peyper.", and then subsequently said "We do not need to resolve that dispute between refereeing colleagues...there is ample evidence, which we accept, which supports Mr Berry's claim".

None of this could be described as normal channels, it was Peyper attempting to use his refereeing relationship with Nic Berry to influence him, and effectively doing Rassie's bidding.

Jesus Christ

The sort of well reasoned and valuable contribution we regularly see around here.

A post like this from me would result in me getting a mod warning.

What's to stop the IRFU using Andy Brace reaching out to another referee? Brace is a regular at Ireland training

Not the first time "you're out" when you're completely proven to be incorrect.

Something I should have clarified earlier is that my initial post on this topic was informed by the fact that I had specifically read the detail of the Erasmus disciplinary hearing from 2021, and thought Peyper's role in that was unacceptable. It absolutely baffled me at the time why he wasn't asked to account for the role he played in that process, or asked to explain what level of ongoing contact he had with the Springbok coaching ticket.

I genuinely think though from the reactions of some of you here that you weren't aware of that detail until I linked to it here.

it is an absolutely fair and truthful statement to say Rassie Erasmus has attempted previously to improperly use Jaco Peyper to leverage his refereeing relationships to try and influence officials who are involved in Springbok games.

It's not a stretch to assume that when he is now putting Peyper on the payroll that he will continue to attempt to use him in this manner.