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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #30572
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743544#Comment_121743544

    The guys who are coming into the team this week appear to be Murray, McCloskey, Bealham, Ryan, Conan and Baird.

    Fine, Baird isn't an experienced international, gotcha etc etc. The rest must have an average of about 50 caps.



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    #30573
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743526#Comment_121743526

    Why did Murray play more than JGP?



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    #30574
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743735#Comment_121743735

    Injury. Doesn't mean he didn't play well.



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    #30575
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743714#Comment_121743714

    So other than the 25% of the team who have single digit starts, everyone is an experienced international. I daresay we agree.



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    #30576
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    i love the Italy game, always mental arguments about making lots of changes now there is mental arguments about the changes.



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    #30577
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743785#Comment_121743785

    He played well, but it's not like he needs the experience at this point. One way or another he will be gone in the next couple years and I don't really see the point of starting him against Italy.

    But sure the actual team will be out soon so let's see then.



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    #30578
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Why is it when Ireland make more than 3 or 4 changes so many people go nuts? This is the ideal time for squad rotation. If our rotated squad is not capable of easily beating Italy at home we have no place claiming we are a proper top tier team. Do you think South Africa or new Zealand supporters would be saying the same if they rotated against Italy? My one criticism of Ireland in the world cup was we went full bore on every game whereas all other tier one teams rotated and rested front line players in games against the minnows. We need to start building proper squad depth with players in multiple positions that are test hardened and trusted on the biggest stage (ideally we need 4 players in every position capable of playing at the top level).

    To those who say that is what the summer tour is for etc. Well no. History teaches us that if the summer tour is against any of the big 3 we go full bore in all those games too. That leaves 1 game a year to rotate in November against whichever tier 2 team is lined up. That is not sufficient to build proper squad depth.



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    #30579
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744014#Comment_121744014

    I'd have Casey too, but the "Murray, good lord. Shouldn't be in the extend panel, glacial pace he plays at", I don't think is accurate.

    He proved it last season in a GS win, when people were saying the exact same thing.



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    #30580
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744100#Comment_121744100

    Who complained about rotation?



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    #30581
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    It's unfortunate for Casey that we're bedding in young 10s at the minute. You don't want to be experimenting with both half back positions at the same time. Having said that, if we were to involve him this weekend, I wonder would it be an idea to start him and Crowley and bench JGP and Byrne.



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    #30582
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744135#Comment_121744135

    Fair, I think saying he shouldn't be near the squad because of his play is wrong (though I also don't think he's been particularly great and he'll slip out of the squad sooner rather than later). I think saying he shouldn't be starting cause it's pointless would be pretty accurate though.



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    #30583
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,587 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672644#Comment_121672644

    i made my opinion clear here, and its seems farrell does not see Casey ahead of Murray yet either



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    #30584
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744177#Comment_121744177

    Is it pointless when you consider the context at 10 tho? That presumably plays a part in selection too.

    As I said, I'd prefer Casey, but I absolutely see the point in starting Murray.



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    #30585
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744135#Comment_121744135

    Did you know, that it isn't last year anymore?

    We also very possibly wouldn't have won the Slam if didn't have JGP to come off the bench against Scotland. Murray was so, so bad in that game.



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    #30586
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744199#Comment_121744199

    And we also very possibly wouldn't have won the Slam, but for Murray in the first 2 games, where he played really well. Prior to which, the exact same arguments were being made.



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    #30587
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744175#Comment_121744175

    He has 13 caps. I don't think he needs to be babysat at this stage. Nor Crowley for that matter. They're club partners and up against the Garbisis who are both younger than them.



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    #30588
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744220#Comment_121744220

    Hang on, are you suggesting we might not have beaten Wales or France if we'd started JGP instead of Murray for those games? You can't possibly be, no rational person could think that.



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    #30589
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744254#Comment_121744254

    Not at all what I'm saying. JGP was injured for those games so was unavailable.



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    #30590
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Phew.



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    #30591
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭techdiver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744163#Comment_121744163

    Maybe the comment about people "going nuts", was hyperbole on my part. It's a general comment about the narrative that we should pick the same team for consistency etc. Also on the previous page I read at least 2 comments of being worried about being caught or grand slam at all costs etc.

    It's also reflective of the media stance on it where many articles and comments are about maintaining the team from France for consistency etc. This Irish team/squad has moved on from the underdog days and we need to think bigger. It might sound arrogant but as I said above our second string team should easily beat Italy at home and if that is indeed the case then it is the ideal time to build proper squad depth and manage the game time of the wider squad.



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    #30592
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744276#Comment_121744276

    Murray was available, came in, played really well and contributed to those results, is the point.



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    #30593
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Murray is only 34, he'll be around for a while yet, back through the years since Murray started playing for Ireland there have been posters saying he would be fading out of the international scene, his detractors have always found an issue with him but he's been consistently in the match days squads (under different managers, so it's not like one has a blind spot for him) since his first cap. Posters say how difficult it is to win a Grand Slam but then dismiss a half back (a pivotal role in any team) in last year's success.



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    #30594
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I don't think there's a bigger myth in Irish rugby than Murray's allegedly "glacial pace". Like, he's slower than JGP and Casey, but people act like he isn't able to play a fast paced game at all which is nonsense of the highest order.

    Sig.png



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    #30595
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nothing remotely surprising to me in Murray being the starter if JGP is out or being rested. It's not how I'd pick it, but all evidence would say Andy Farrell has a very clear pecking order at scrum half and it's 1. Jamison Gibson Park 2. Conor Murray and 3. Craig Casey.

    When JGP was injured last year, it was Murray who started. Casey's sole involvement in the world cup was 20 mins off the bench v Tonga. Murray started that Tonga game and came off the bench in every other game as well.

    Casey may have leapfrogged Murray in the eyes of the Munster coaches, but with AF all evidence suggests Murray is still ahead.



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    #30596
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744186#Comment_121744186

    Maybe. I think its a pretty poor indictment of how the Irish coaches view Casey though.



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    #30597
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    There are 3 scrumhalves on the panel, same three as for the RWC, same three for last year's 6Ns. Whatever it says about them and the pecking order no one else is getting a look in at the moment. Yet, we have posters decrying Murray's inclusion in every competition squad and most match squads. It beggars belief.



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    #30598
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,760 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    After all that it's Casey starting and Murray missing out



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    #30599
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744622#Comment_121744622

    This aged well 😁

    The team for Sunday

    5. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)(37)

    14. Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster) (2)

    13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(68)

    12. Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster)(15)

    11. James Lowe (Leinster)(27)

    10. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(10)

    9. Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)(13)

    1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(60)

    2. Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(22)

    3. Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)(37)

    4. Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(6)

    5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(60)

    6. Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)(16)

    7. Caelan Doris (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(37)(captain)

    8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(42)

    Replacements:

    16. Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(27)

    17. Jeremy Loughman (Garryowen/Munster)(4)

    18. Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(12)

    19. Iain Henderson (Academy/Ulster)(79)

    20. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(58)

    21. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(31)

    22. Harry Byrne (UCD/Leinster)(2)

    23. Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(30).



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    #30600
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,587 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Lol Casey starts


    Andy the ultimate troll



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    #30601
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd say it's a pretty poor indictment of how the Irish coaches view Harry Byrne / Frawley :P



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