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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Israeli police now hitting Israeli citizens (families of hostages) with tear gas. Real nice guys



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think there is no doubt there will be alot of innocent lives lost if this goes ahead, yet posters spend their time here railing against the SA, like that is the most important priority. Hopefully the actions against the UNRWA will not prevent humanitarian aid getting through to Gaza.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,890 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The ICJ statement on the hostages is the strongest ruling it made. It is also of particular note that it wasn't asked by South Africa about this, it was so concerned it directly referred to the hostages on its own initiative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Sir_Name


    And rightly so. Hopefully all hostages shall be released.



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Toeuptony




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,826 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Funny, I don't hear of this kind of controversy whenever China is involved, and they're not defending themselves against mortal enemies in Inner Mongolia, Tibet and East Turkestan (Xinjiang). Only a tiny country that's constantly at war for its survival covering less than 1% of the MENA region.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,826 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Precisely. Anything that's on QNN is most likely either a lie or is being skewed in order to present a false impression.

    And anyone who uses QNN as a source is willingly aligning themselves with Hamas and PIJ.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Okay so you can cast aspersions on videos because you don't believe the translation but you can post videos and everyone has to take it as fact.


    Alright. Once again, proving you can't debate in good faith, goalposts will be moved, posts will be misattributed, mangled and deliberately misquoted so you can have a gotcha, At least you've stopped spouting FACTS, given you seem to not be able to fact check half your own stuff



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    You must have your head in the sand then, because there is plenty of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Excuse me?

    Are you saying my comment was borne out of hatred? Ignorant and borne out of ill will?

    That's what Zaka did - that is a verifiable fact. It was reported by Haaretz which I posted here a day or two ago.

    Zaka used Oct 7th to fundraise for themselves. In fact, I'd say equating them to "grifters" is being kind.

    They made money, for themselves, out of the grief of the relatives of those murdered, raped and kidnapped by Hamas.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    They'd have to have a match against them first. They fulfilled the fixture that they should not have had to fulfill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,274 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Wearing a coat in the operating room? Shot in the chest but no blood or holes on the coat? There seems to be a bullet hole shaped blood stain on his back when he takes off his coat, but again, no damage to the clothing is apparent. No chest wound or blood on his front either, only in the armpit area? The bullet must have gone around his coat into his armpit and stayed there? Running through the halls screaming after supposedly being shot without dripping blood anywhere? Also what operating room has windows? Certainly not the one in that video anyway. Seems dubious.


    Some people will believe any old sh!te.



  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    Are you saying the Hamas actions on Oct 7th were justified?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    If you cannot see that a sentence written by the ICJ does not state what you say is states, there's nothing more I can do.

    You've been calling out misinformation - and I completely agree with you. You even agreed with me that posting misinformation should be called out.

    I'm calling out your misinformation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    So now it's a point of order? Yesterday it was a ruling, then an order. Even when I and another poster pointed out they called on Hamas to release the hostages you persisted with trying to present it as a court ruling or order. At this stage I really think you're doing this deliberately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    It is not a ruling. No matter how many times people repeat this, it is not a ruling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Other media are reporting it happened in the operations room. So a bad translation. It's pretty obvious the start of the video is not an operation room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    SA did not mention the hostages? Do you have a source for that?

    it was so concerned it directly referred to the hostages on its own initiative

    Not on its own initiative - see Para 49. This was an UNWRA statement submitted to the court.

    "It’s been 100 days of ordeal and anxiety for hostages and their families."



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,551 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Because he says so, or because he doesn't like the source, or because (insert bùllshìt reason)...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I've been in operating rooms with windows.

    "Targeting hospitals and medical personnel intentionally, and as a strategy of war, is a war crime."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The ICJ voted on six provisional measures:

    1. For Israel to take "all measures" to prevent acts of genocide from taking place - 15:2
    2. To ensure the IDF does not engage in any acts of genocide - 15:2
    3. To prevent and punish public incitement to genocide, including by government and military officials - 16:1
    4. To enable basic services and humanitarian aid to reach Gazan civilians - 16:1
    5. To preserve evidence related to violations of Genocide Convention - 15:2
    6. To submit a report to the ICJ within one month on all measures taken - 15:2

    As regards the statement on hostages, the sentence starts "The Court deems it necessary to emphasize"


    No words such as "the court rules", "orders", "judges that" etc.

    No ruling, judgement, finding or order stating "The court finds Hamas are in breach of International law"

    No ruling, judgement, finding or order stating "The court finds Hamas have committed war crimes"


    The statement posted: "ICJ ruled that Hamas were in breach of international law and was carrying out a war crime in keeping hostages"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    US President Joe Biden has said that countries receiving American weapons must adhere to international law in a memorandum issued on Thursday night.




  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Kiteview


    It is very revealing to see the pedantry / technicalities being used by some posters to defend and excuse Palestinian / Hamas actions - and how those many of those posters have no problem in making sweeping claims that Israel is engaged in “genocide” and “war crimes”, even after the ICJ pointedly refused to make any such judgements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    It's revealing how many reputable news sources are quoted to back up those "sweeping claims".

    Even the US has said Israel has "gone over the top".



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Some of the Israeli crimes are pretty obvious though.

    Ethnic cleansing and collective punishment are the 2 most obvious. As obvious as the Hamas crimes of kidnapping and targeting civilians.

    You don't need a ruling from any international court to call Hamas out, but you do for Israel?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Haaretz:

    • The U.S. State Department said that an Israeli military operation in Rafah, where many civilians are sheltering, "would be a disaster."

    • U.S. President Joe Biden said on Thursday night that Israel's conduct in Gaza has been "over the top," adding that he is working to achieve a sustained pause in fighting.

    • The Israeli Supreme Court ordered on Friday the release of Umm al-Fahm resident Ahmed Kalifah from detention, after he was arrested during a protest against the war in Gaza. Despite being accused of incitement to terrorism, the court ruled against his continued detention, citing insufficient evidence to justify it.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Pots and kettles , and there has generally been a distinction between Hamas and Palestinians, in that no one is actively supporting Hamas



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Haaretz:

    The Palestinian Red Crescent reported that Israeli forces have entered the Al-Amal Hospital in Khan Yunis in southern Gaza.

    Senior U.S. military intel officers told Congress members in private conversations that it appears only a third of Hamas' fighters have been killed in Gaza, the New York Times reported. The officers also reportedly said that while Israel has degraded Hamas' military capabilities, it is not close to eliminating it.

    Almost one in 10 Gazan children under the age of five are now acutely malnourished, according to initial UN data from arm measurements that show physical wasting.

    The Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministry said at least 27,946 Palestinians have been killed and 67,459 wounded since the war began.

    Norway said it is giving $26 million in 2024 to UNRWA, and could increase that sum if needed, days after the agency warned it could cease all activity by the end of the month.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Haaretz:

    The Hostages and Missing Families Forum demanded a meeting with the war cabinet following what they called "a string of events and comments raising difficult questions relating to the cabinet's commitment to freeing the hostages." The families demanded to know if that commitment still stands, or if negotiating power should be "handed over to other parties."

    Yossi Sharabi – a resident of Kibbutz Be'eri kidnapped by Hamas on October 7 and pronounced dead last month – was most likely killed in an Israeli strike, according to an IDF investigation.



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