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Upgrading Tails

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  • 09-02-2024 10:28pm
    #1
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭


    Greetings

    Relative had a smart meter installed. All ok, except installing technician issued a kind of "Warning Notice" to say the tails should be upgraded, but it wasn't something requiring to be notified to Electric Ireland. Just sort of "get that done sooner rather than later".

    Is it simply a case of getting an electrician to rip out the old tails and replace them, or does it then need certification? If certification is required, does that mean the whole installation needs to be gone over and old fashioned (eg red/black cables) replaced? Or simply check and certify the fuseboard ?

    Thanks in advance



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    #2
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058335478/upgrading-tails

    New mains cables need to be installed along with upgraded earthing and earth rod. The whole house has to be tested and certified.a Cert 1 has to be issued to esbn to facilitate connection to new meter. If any issues are discovered during testing then it may not pass this process



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    #3
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,678 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Had it done to my parents house recently enough, late 80s wiring - new consumer unit (fuseboard) was required along with the earthing etc mentioned.

    ESBN - or at least my local lads - need the electrician present when doing the swap; and in both my own house (full rewire) and my parents case, turned up entirely unannounced the first time before getting rescheduled to a time the electrician could be there.

    In both cases we also had the MIC increased to.... something (I can't remember what either house was or now is) and an 80A networks fuse installed. It isn't free.



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    #4
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747699#Comment_121747699

    Ouch, sounds like this might be painful. Thanks for the info.



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    #5
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747737#Comment_121747737

    Tnanks for the info. I particularly liked your last line. I suspect this will be something of an understatement.🤣



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    #6
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,678 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747783#Comment_121747783

    Checked there and I paid €415 to ESBN to have the meter moved (was replaced with a smart meter at the same time, but moved about 80cm away); new network fuse and cutout and the MIC change. I paid the sparks €10800 for everything else!

    That did include ethernet and TV coaxial wiring, spare circuits for a potential future extension (coiled up under the kitchen floor - will save the hall floor at least), wiring for a car charger and wired smoke alarms so not just a basic rewire; plus reinstatement plastering for channelling.



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    #7
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747816#Comment_121747816

    Sorry for the delayed response.

    Thanks for the additional information. That's eye watering alright. 😂



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    #8
    Buffman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭Buffman


    I'm guessing they still went ahead and swapped the meter anyway?

    Pity the new tails weren't ready to go as you potentially could have gotten them swapped without paying the ESBN fee as they were wiring the new meter in anyway.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles to avoid the DRS fee.



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    #9
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    That's a good point. Unfortunately, the relative in question was completely oblivious to the situation, so couldn't have been prepared as you suggest.

    Now it's electricians, certificates etc etc to sort it out. Not to mention the likely upheaval in getting wiring sorted, which is probably more daunting than the expense.

    Amazingly, in the almost 60 years since the house was built, it hasn't burned down once.

    However, daughter's friend's house burned down one Christmas Day, and the fire started in the fusebox in the hall. Tails????? Never heard one way or the other. Fortunately no one hurt, which is way more important.

    Edit to say: I completely understand why standards exist, my tongue in cheek remark above is simply that - tongue in cheek.

    Post edited by NickNickleby on


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    #10
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭Antenna


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761678#Comment_121761678

    Presumably they had an electric cooker, on for a long period of time, cooking the Christmas dinner? Loose connections (or loose fuse) overheating probably and combined with a prolonged heavy load.

    No I have never heard of old 6mm sq tails going on fire in a domestic residence.

    Post edited by Antenna on


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    #11
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Save me from making a new thread. Does the RECI contact ESBN to connect the new tails. or the customer? Does ESBN actually make the physical connection to the meter?

    Stay Free



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    #12
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768078#Comment_121768078

    The rec issues a certificate to safe electric who pass it on to esbn. Esbn invoice the customer (€180) and when they receive payment they schedule an engineer to call and connect the cables into the meter. The rec has to return then to do some post connection testing.



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    #13
    ...Ghost...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768450#Comment_121768450

    Thanks. Does the rec return after the esbn connect tails, or do they have to be there same time?

    Stay Free



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    #14
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    Hello everyone, OP here with another thought regarding this.

    In this scenario, the Consumer Unit is in the same big white box as the newly installed meter. Nothing was said about that. However, will it be permissible to connect the new tails to the Consumer Unit in situ, or must they be in separate boxes?

    Thanks in advance.



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    #15
    Doolittle51
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭Doolittle51


    Is there any chance they fitted an isolator downstream of the meter? This would mean the tails can be changed without getting ESBN involved. Post a picture if you're unsure, so we can have a gawk



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    #16
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797914#Comment_121797914

    Do you mean a new main board was fitted in meter cabinet for car charging?

    That shouldn't be in the cabinet. Probably best fire up a pic.



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    #17
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797914#Comment_121797914

    Big white box??

    do you mean they were enclosed in a timber framed cabinet?



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    #18
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I'm misunderstanding anyhow. He didn't mention car charging or new board.



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    #19
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    Sorry folks for my lack of clarity.

    There's a white cabinet in the porch. Its there since the house was built. It contains the meter AND the Consumer Unit, (which replaced the original fuse board which was those old screw in ceramic fuses). This was done about 20 years ago.

    Photo to follow....



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    #20
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    ESB_Cab.jpg

    I've used my paranoia pen to hide anything that might identifying of the property (I hope).

    The consumer unit door has a label identifying the installation company who installed it in Dec 2000. I believe the tails are the coloured wires hiding behind the thick ESB cables. So, my question is : will the ESB insist on moving that consumer unit before reconnecting it to the network with new tails?

    I ask this because a neighbour of mine had an identical scenario to this, and one day out of the blue, an ESB guy arrived to examine the box. Upon seeing the setup he (allegedly) became quite irate with the homeowner and demanded to know who had put a consumer unit in a meter box. This occurred during the Smart Meter installation programme. Not being an electrician, the neighbour hadn't a clue what the guy was talking about, so eventually he left with nothing to show for his visit. Subsequently, a Smart Meter was installed and no comment whatsoever about the 'rogue' consumer unit.

    So, as you can see above, a Smart Meter was installed and while no mention was made about the consumer unit, a sheet of paper was given warning that the tails needed upgrading. So, that's the history to the original question.


    ps, as this isn't my installation, if anyone can see any identifying info in the photo, can you tell me so that I can delete the photo.

    Thanks again



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    #21
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Those tails wouldn't be an urgent issue

    Is that board in the outdoor meter cabinet



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    #22
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799816#Comment_121799816

    Unfortunately no rec will upgrade the tails and certify this installation as the distribution board is not permitted inside the meter cabinet



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    #23
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799859#Comment_121799859

    Thanks for your input.

    Yes, it's actually outside the front door. It's the only electrical box in the property.



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    #24
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121799975#Comment_121799975

    Thanks for that info.

    Sounds like install a new consumer unit somewhere , then presumably wire everything back to that - I'd imagine there's no way of pulling back the existing cables, thus requiring a rewire.

    I'll let someone else tell him. Nah, I'll give him an idea of his predicament and point him at an electrician.

    This is after a recent redecoration upstairs and downstairs, solid floors and dry lining. :-(

    Thanks everyone for the inputs.



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    #25
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭blackbox


    What's the problem with the old tails? is it just that they're the old colours?

    If that's all that's "wrong" with them I wouldn't worry about it.



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    #26
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800140#Comment_121800140

    Ooh, perhaps a glimmer of hope!

    I'll get him to find the piece of paper and see. But I'm pretty sure he said at the time it was the cable size.

    Thanks for your input.



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    #27
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800140#Comment_121800140

    Size

    But ya it's not a major predicament at all

    Can't tell if they're 6 or 10 . Even at 6 there's unlikely to be any issue



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    #28
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800203#Comment_121800203

    I’d beg to differ on that. Especially if there’s an instant shower. Can’t make out that top right breaker. Possibly an added shower on the original rcd(should be on separate rcbo if it is). Definitely undersized neutral/earth link too.



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    #29
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Ya think

    Those short bits of wire



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    #30
    Doolittle51
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭Doolittle51


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800365#Comment_121800365

    Are you implying that it's ok to have undersized tails because they are short? If so, you haven't a clue, so please don't give advice to people about ignoring potentially dangerous electrical issues.

    Apologies if that's not what you meant, but I don't know what else you could be referring to.



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    #31
    tomhammer..
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800448#Comment_121800448

    Ya sure

    You're the danger police .



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