"They don't have the facilities"

Are you .......

Lynn Boylan ???

🤔

😏

Salty.

I'll take "American buzzwords I picked up that have zero relevance in Ireland" for $500, please Bob

Nah, Butthurt is another Americanism you can keep to yourself, thanks.

• I'm aware of the definition of "salty". Nobody says that in Ireland, we have plenty of our own colloquialisms without importing that shite (see bulling, raging, giving out, eat the head off ya, sickened, scundered (NI), freaked etc.), hence the zero relevance comment. There's a sizeable portion of the country that wouldn't have the foggiest what you were shiting on about if you used salty in casual conversation in the context you used it. But you got the wrong end of the stick, you failed to take the "....in Ireland" part of my post into account. There is a difference between something having zero relevance to this thread/conversation on Boards and something having zero relevance in Ireland. You'd want to have some form of dyslexia to a) not be able to discern that difference and b) misinterpret my original reply to the OP. Hence the question.
• Seeing as you've taken me up incorrectly, let's discuss how you're also wrong on that count..........I also said it wasn't relevant because I wasn't salty, or bitter, or upset or any of that shite. Calling someone salty when they aren't (why would I be when I barely have a notion of who she is or what you mean in your failed attempt at humour?) is also not relevant, for anyone struggling to keep up. Someone brought up KCFC as an example of those who cry "there are no facilities" as described in the OP. I explained how this wasn't the case, and you tried to equate that with me being Lynn Boylan, whatever the fcuk that means. I asked you if you had a reading/learning disability, because only a complete eejit* would misunderstand what I was saying, which was written in plain English. You mistook that as me being salty, for reasons unknown to anyone but yourself. How could I be a sore loser if I didn't lose?

You failed to understand what was being said.

You threw out a lame-ass joke/insult which didn't make sense, thereby also failing

When you got a joke/insult back as a reply, you declared the other person to be salty, despite zero evidence that this was indeed the case. That's a third failure on your part, I'm afraid.

*seeing as you've displayed a fierce dearth of reading comprehension up to this point, and for any Americans watching, replace eejit with chump, numbskull, blockhead, schmuck, dweeb, doofus, poindexter etc.)

Prediction: Your next post will be some variation of "hahaha.....Look at this wall of text, only a salty person would bother typing this much hahahaha I’m obviously after getting under your skin I am the winner hahahah”.

The "bad parenting" line has been interesting to me over recent years. While I genuinely believe there are "bad" parents out there - as in parents who do not care a jot or actively produce horrible children - it seems to me anecdotally that overwhelmed or struggling parents are infinitely more common than "bad" ones.

A lot of this comes from my experience which I have mentioned enough times on the forum to probably make the majority sick of me at this stage :) But in short there was a group of "scrote" teens around my area who were intimidating people, physically accosting old ladies, drinking and littering and in general just being in many ways awful. People who talked about them would use words like "scum" and "irredeemable". I had my doubts.

So I indirectly confronted them one day - in that I made myself seem a target so they would come at me. And I ended up working with them and teaching them martial arts and a few other things. I jokingly run a "Jedi Acadamy" around here now where the kids learn the things Jedi would learn. And where they can not learn Jedi things (since "the force" does not exist for example) they learn the closest real world equivalent. And they love it.

And they have turned out pretty wonderful kids. Over covid they were doing the gardens and delivering the shopping of the little old ladies they were previously intimidating for example. But there are many examples of how turned around they are.

I met their parents. I made a point of it. And all but one set (who were scum of the highest order) of parents were lovely people. They were working two jobs and long hours to make ends meet. They were not "bad" parents. But the demands of meeting the minimum standards of feeding and clothing and housing and school educating their kids was such they had little time, energy, or ability to do the rest of "parenting". So the kids ended up on the street with other kids. Aimless and lost. The meals they were eating were not good, convenience stuff. And the result was not pretty.

Would a cart load of new facilities around Maynooth have taken those kids in and stopped the "scrote" behavior? Possibly. But I think it takes a lot more than mere facilities existing. They have to be maintained. Access has to be uncomplicated. Kids need guidance and leadership. And more. So I am a little skeptical as to how useful it would have been to them really. For every athlete who talks about how a football or boxing club "saved" them there are many kids who aren't built for either of those sports.

Its a bit like how you can get kids 100 presents at Christmas but after a couple of hours they are pestering you and giving you no peace. Why? Because more than gifts they want your time. And I think you can similarly throw a ton of facilities at children but like the gifts it will not be quite enough. I was born and bred in Clontarf. Swimming pools, football pitches galore, beaches, parks, Karate club, Snooker in Fairview, Library in Raheny, Rugby pitch and more existed as I grew up and kids still hung around outside shops being a nuisance seemingly with nothing better to do.

The outcome of children is multi factorial and "facilities" and "parenting" and so forth are only single factors. Trying to distill it all down to "its all because of X" for me always leaves me skeptical. It's never that simple. It makes me sad. I am so proud of the work I did with the kids and I am proud of them and what they do now and have become. I genuinely touched and changed the lives of a number of people. But it's only a handful of kids and I am only 1 man. And even then I do it with the support of 4 to 10 other people at different times. I wish I could help them all! But no part of me shouting about facilities OR that it's "all about the parents" is likely to help anyone I fear.

Yeah, Mountjoy Square, Foley St, these areas were so much worse not that long ago and not the sort of place you'd want to go near. This is why I don't get all this hullabulloo over Dublin being the most dangerous place in the world, it was way way worse back then, literal no go areas in the city centre. My dad used to get pelted with stones cycling home from work through Summerhill ffs, now it's grand.

they have been dispersed somewhat, and facilities have definitely improved, which has left us with a dublin city centre far safer and pleasant than it used to be, was my point.

i know i'll be told it's a warzone nowadays but i'm speaking from experience and my memory of a time when you couldn't walk around much of the city centre, especially mountjoy area where the poster i responded to was talking about, "robbed or battered or both" as he said.

....theres actually no conclusive evidence to support this, such behaviors tend to be highly complex in nature, an element of the whole idea of incarceration is based on this thinking, i.e. if people are incarcerated for committing crimes, the mere fact of incarceration will change their behaviors, yet theres no conclusive evidence to support this thinking, in fact re-offence rates are extremely high post incarceration, so no, 'deterrents' dont always lead to changes in behavior.....

yes but the thinking is the same or similar, i.e. enforce 'deterrents' in order to try change behaviors, only problem is, that doesnt seem to work for most, i.e. theres no deterrent.....

...i.e. behaviors, in particular unsocial behaviors are extremely complex, due to a multitude of highly complex issues, and moving such people out of areas means, they ll just move off somewhere else with their dysfunctional behavior's, becoming somebody elses problem, i.e. it doesnt solve the problem....

...can you prove all of this please?

yes treatments do help, but many simply wont engage in such, particularly at later stages, when in fact they were showing signs of distress at younger ages, i.e. early stages of schooling etc, when particular services were required, but not provided, this still occurs, and can occur at significant levels....

again, yes both should be implemented, but most treatments simply arent, particularly early age treatments, resulting in a mess, and virtually untreatable adult behavioral issues....

....wouldnt be worrying about that, as it surely wouldnt lead to escalations, surely.....

Again, is there any evidence that such threats will work?

I know you'd like them to work, but that doesn't mean that they work in the real world.

In our town there are playgrounds near council estates. A basketball court built next to an area that would always have had a large number of social welfare families.

Nothing built near any estate that would be classed as privately owned ( for the most part).

Yet the kids hanging around town are mostly from the poorer areas and causing nothing but bother.

It has to come down from parents. If they aren't interested in getting their kids involved in school/activities/work most kids in this environment have no good examples.

Well in that case we need to find something that does work. This should take the form of more help and support but if this doesn't work then we need to go down the route of fines where the payment is took directly out of their sw payment.

Housing First works, all over the world.

Start here

Then here

And here

And here

Then here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7427255/

And what if they have a council house and don't bother to pay their rent? Ah don't worry about it, sure some people owe 2 years of rent and haven't been evicted, this is Ireland, you'll be grand.

What happens if businesses don't bother to pay their rates? Ah don't worry about, sure some businesses owe years of rates and haven't been caught, this is Ireland, you'll be grand.

Is it not the case that there are beds in emergency accomm for all rough sleepers, but they choose not to use them?

Or they don't like the drugs or general atmosphere or they want privacy or don't want support workers.

There was a really interesting documentary on the Gunness trust and the last bit was about the hostal they run, the number one thing the residents wanted was privacy and to be left alone.

Speaking as somebody living in Dublin…. There are facilities everywhere.

Multiple sports clubs…soccer, GAA, Tennis, Golf, Pitch n Putt, swimming, athletics, snooker / pool, basketball, cycling, wall climbing, martial arts, cricket…. Yes, There is even a cricket club in Finglas now…! plus Clontarf

no facilities ? Maybe true 20/25 years ago, certainly not true now.

ok, for a person not sports oriented ? Maybe take up or take an interest in Art, cinema / acting, photography, woodworking/ furniture restoration,

literally not enough hours of free time to indulge probably in a quarter of those options….

Mon : free night, or do some art perhaps ?

Tue : swimming

Wed : soccer / GAA training

Thur : cinema

Fri : Art class

Sat : soccer / GAA match

Sun : free day or go play tennis ? Kick about in park ?

Up to parents to parent…. In tandem with one another… give lifts, other supports etc, take turns..

as with the above dummy scenario… it’s doable, yes, effort is required but I’m sitting here without a criminal record I can say that much…I had a busy, active, constructive childhood, thankfully….encouraged, brought places, introduced to stuff like sports, scouting, art etc… I couldn’t paint my way out of a dulux factory but it was fun trying, good craic with other kids and a great teacher…

id blame parents before I’d blame no facilities, because there ARE both, the effort does have to be made, organise, enquire, communicate and parent ..,

true.

but very little in life is free. For anyone of any age.

im not suggesting that everything everyday in that scenario would be attainable.

but there are options for parents….as outlined…. The vast vast majority or urban and suburban areas have facilities…