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The accelerating fall in Sinn Féin support

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    This is the nonsense getting pushed by Sinn Fein, in fact the amount of change for the better in Ireland over the last 30 years has been incredible. Something that Sinn Fein had next to no involvement in.

    Yet Sinn Fein supporters keep pushing that nothing has got better. This is totally incorrect.

    In terms of health, yes the HSE has issues but the life expectancy in Ireland is growing.

    Jog on now with the nonsense nothing got better, either you are very young and only born during Celtic TIger or you just are ignoring what Ireland was like before that.

    Already a thread on this in politics forum, the poster you are responding to is already on it. Everyone has said the same bar Sinn Fein supporters who think after spending years giving out abuse to FF supporters online and in the streets they will suddenly forget all of that and go into government with Sinn Fein

    A property portfolio and richest party how?

    We all know the links with organised crime, are you saying that is a good thing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,382 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 19 TelephoneTag


    People ask why Sinn Féin would not want certain people to vote for them.


    The whole point is to challenge reactionary thinking in voters, not reward it or entertain it.


    That only grows the problem, challenge them, inform them z improve them.


    Letting the working class sink in to a morass of gammon thinking is not an option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    What does or did your Swedish colleague think of the Swedish unfettered immigration policy that facilitated the creation of Muslim no go areas in their cities and a huge rape problem?

    These are ethnically the same type of immigrants as SF would favour!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭NSAman


    The only vote currently available to people, is outside of ALL sittings TD’s. That’s a big gamble.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,382 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Yes but anyone espousing that common sense migration approach is being cheaply labelled "far right".

    Any sort of commentary, nuanced or not, that isn't full throated support is met with guffaws and indignance and shrill cries of far right..

    Sure only last week, the current minister for justice published some self serving crap conflating the asylum and refugee systems with legal migration



  • Registered Users Posts: 19 TelephoneTag


    It is far right though.


    The politics of exclusion, denial of rights to others is always far right.


    The country can handle the numbers if the will is there.


    Why not build a 100k houses a year if the will was there it can be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭NSAman




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    For me it’s housing. They blabber on about policy and yet collectively they have blocked thousands of houses at planning.

    And I also feel that are just bandwagoners on a lot of topics.

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Of course the blocking of houses has a knock on affect as companies resubmit planning etc which cost millions on each submission, by the time they get past all the stupid rejections the price per unit is driven up. That's if they get past the rejections.

    I seen a few years back a planning student accommodation building in Dublin, can't remember which area but it was going to be 5 storey high, Sinn Fein TD out declared they had blocked it because it "didn't tie in with the area", f**k me how will we ever get anything done in Ireland if that shower of numpties are in government.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Will alone won’t build the houses needed, which currently stands at the equivalent of all the houses currently in Cork city. This is the bluff SF are hoping the electorate will swallow, have they told you how their willingness will realise the builds they are promising?



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    Sinn Fein will promise free housing to the welfare class and make some promises that they'll definitely have a long hard look at immigration because despite their policies and position the average Sinn Fein voter doesn't want forderners taking houses meant for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,382 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Far right of you maybe. Which is wholly fine. But we've lost all perspective if asking for reduced levels of inward migration is far right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sinn Fein have no intention at looking at immigration, they have been for years pro immigration but it never really came up as an issue. Only now it is such a high priority issue that Sinn Fein supporters have realised this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    No one has any intention of doing anything about it, but they'll tell us that it's something they'll look at, and a large portion of the irish electorate will be satisfied with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    When have they said they will look at it? they made some comment about current policy and then moved on...they have zero plan to look at anything and in fact would probably like more immigrants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    I don't think you're following me, once the election is announced all 3 parties will tell us that they are totally going to get around to taking a look at immigration someday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,666 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Sinn Féin for the Sinn Féiners then, others not welcome. Bold strategy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I would need to see the breakdown of class support and trends in support to draw conclusions about the reasons.

    My opinion is that Immigration is one of the reasons in working class areas.

    If there is a decline in better off areas, it might be that the FG scaremongering about SF wanting to bring down house prices to $300,000 in Dublin might have been a factor in this group.

    SF's support among the better off was never that high though in actual elections, though it had been increasing.

    While support for immigration is higher among the better off ABC1 group in the Irish Times poll, 52% in this group still say they want a more closed system than we have now. In the entire sample the figure is 59%, rising to 70% among SF voters. Interestingly its 58% among Independents, They are not necessarily a uniform group as one would expect with Independents. Even so its clear that in the Dail and Seanad, most of the criticism of the open borders policies are coming from Independents.

    I was always sceptical of SF. I am still concerned about its MEP Sean McManus voting against criminalising those who evade sanctions on Russia. It seems out of step with the party in the Dail voting in favour of such a measure at home. While Mary Lou has condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we have occasionally heard echoes of the earlier pro-Russian position, including Reada Cronin at an Oireachtas Committee suggesting Ukraine should cede territory. Also when the war started, there was a purge of pro-Russian stuff from SF's website. Have they really abandoned their previous views so thoroughly? Possible but my reading is there are still elements in the party who are applying a "England's difficult is Ireland's opportunity" approach to this, and that is wrong because the conflict is in Ukraine,. But it affects the West through inflation.

    I also have concern that a SF led government will harm our vital relationship with the United States by their position on the war in Gaza. I actually agree with what SF has said on Gaza, but I think vital national economic interests, and those concerning Northern Ireland, should be a priority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Oh I agree, I don't think any of them want to stop the flow.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,049 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The country cannot handle the numbers regardless of 'will'.

    We are in the midst of a housing crisis and even with plenty of money to be made building houses, we simply cannot build enough. 30k a year currently and that isn't enough to address population growth, nevermind pent up demand.

    We do not have the resources for current numbers of asylum seekers, nevermind future ones. The time to take action and tighten immigration rules is now, or else we will have an even worse crisis in a few years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Most of their representatives aren't very skilled politicians and many like McDonald and O Broin are very unlikeable. That's before you get to the reality their economic policy would be a disaster, They have no actual plan for housing beyond shouting about it and they tow the same line as the current government when it comes to immigration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Ó Broin is becoming dangerously smug. His appearance is obviously off putting - the round glasses and trusted member of Lenin’s inner circle dress sense. But then you have the rolling of vowels, the clipped accent, and the way he speaks very slowly so the great unwashed at home can understand and internalise his profound message. Probably a friend of Glen Hansard as well. You know the type.

    I’d imagine he knows about as much about the realities of building a house as that lecturer in Maynooth has. Spoofers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    That is a reasonable point but I recall back in 2009 when the false floor was inserted below plummeting property prices by insuring a particular tranche of houses belonging to the bailed out banks and when FG was borrowing at a rate of over 20 billion per year, - concern was expressed by developers about who was going to build houses in the future. Basically the government wanted houses to be expensive and developers knew people wouldn't be able to afford them.

    We know the government could pop their own bubble by taxing existing housing more while exempting new builds. Instead they tax new builds even more than existing housing by adding on the cement levy. They make repossessions of defaulted properties nearly impossible in order to keep properties off the market. And the billions they threw at the banks enabled the banks to afford the losses, at least on paper.

    So what will make properties find their true, unmanipulated value? I think what might do it would be a government in desperation. In recent weeks the speculation about interest rate cuts has increased. The ECB and the FED are both sending out information which is not very consistent. They want bond buyers to hold and continue buying but they don't want the equity markets to crash. But this year, they will lose control of either the equity or bond markets, with disastrous consequences either way. That is when true price discovery happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,436 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    This is a bit of a trend. Simon Harris is another one....it's an inability to hide the disdain they have for people they used to agree with!!!

    These aren't smart men, they are idiots who have spent too long compromising their beliefs!! It's genuinely weird to witness, you get to see in realtime, how infantile many of these people actually are!



  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    They probably are afraid of serious talks about a united Ireland so they decide to change parties. It is not often I agree with Joe Brolly but he was saying on Twitter about how the Irish media were painting the first nationalist first minister story as a bad thing. He said even the English were praising the situation. The southerners would rather things stayed like they were before the 90s as it means a united Ireland isn't on the cards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Other posters have mentioned SF’s policy is ‘Brits out, everyone else in’. I would go further and say they are more red than green (red for communists, red for the blood on their hands in both sectarian and gang violence.)

    They have pie in the sky ideas. Taxing the rich doesn’t work. It’s been tried in other countries. People just cut back on investment and move money out of the country. The rich sneak away and the talented leave for better opportunities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    FG wont partner with SF. They have already said so.

    They will continue to partner with FF, so the most likley election outcome is another FFG govt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    So basically you are supporting a party without knowing what they stand for and what policies they have.

    Its pretty much the same response as all SF voters I have spoken to.

    I dont understand how someone can support a party when they dont know what their policies are. But hey, its highly unlikley they will get in anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    But if the houses arent there, should the immigration still occur at uncapped levels?

    And if immigration does continue, without the houses and infrastructure, are we not denying the rights to services and housing for everyone?

    So by taking a liberal approach, we are perhaps producing a far right outcome, for everyone.



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