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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭fitz


    I think it's fair to say he's been doing so for the last 12 months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I'd still be very surprised at this point if Bealham got the nod over Furlong if both were fit and available. Bealham was probably playing better stuff 12 months ago at this point. Furlong isn't what he was but looked a lot hungrier to get involved over the last number of weeks.

    I thought Bealham started well yesterday and carried a few times in the opening 10 minutes. I barely noticed him on the field after that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good win - without ever needing to get out of third gear IMO.

    Pack absolutely strangled the life out of them - I can rarely remember a game where one team practically didn't fire a shot like this. Italians barely got into our half yesterday.

    Set piece was very good - scrum was well on top before we changed the props, and 100% from our line out again.

    Irish Times had a stat about 71% of our attacking rucks yesterday lasting under 3 seconds, which pretty much explains why the Italians were chasing shadows all day. Doris, Baird & Ryan really led the way on this front.

    Everyone rates Dan Sheehan, but in a weird way I still feel he almost doesn't get the credit he deserves. This is a guy who delivers 8/10 at a minimum every single week. He's an incredible try scorer, a massive hitter in defence, great at clearing ruck ball, brilliant carrier and his lineout throwing has been flawless of late. He's probably the best hooker in the world right now.

    Superb game from Jack Crowley again IMO - he's playing like a guy who is full of confidence and it's great to see. His handling was superb in the first half especially, and his carrying is adding a new dimension to our attack.

    Craig Casey was busy around the park and the experience will stand to him. His kicking is the weakest part of his game - both in terms of execution and the decision around when to kick. He also needs to be smarter about when to snipe around the opposition line, but his pass is still excellent and he brings a good energy / tempo to our play. He's still the closest replica to JGP we have, even if he's obviously not at that level yet.

    Thought the centres were superb. Henshaw made numerous line breaks and some great reads in defence too. I think right now Aki/Henshaw has to be the first choice centre pairing going forward. I thought McCloskey had a superb game - his offloading game has always been top class, but his passing in general was really good yesterday. He made two or three tries yesterday.

    Back three were all good. Hugo was his excellent self, cutting them to pieces and covering everywhere in defence. Lowe is crucial to Ireland and Leinster in terms of how our backline attacks. Nash has been busy and is good at taking chances when presented - that's all you can ask of a winger.

    As usual, got scrappier when the bench was introduced. Thought Harry Byrne had a decent to good cameo, showed some nice touches and played very flat to the line, putting guys in space a few times. JGP showed some nice touches. Replacement props both struggled a bit I felt.

    Overall - the team is playing well, our set piece has been better than we'd have potentially feared, our attack and defence both look good and cohesive. The new guys we've bedded in have all been better than we'd have hoped, and both Crowley and McCarthy are adding new dimensions to our backline and pack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,376 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I was very impressed with Baird. James Ryan was great too. The depth at second row is ridiculous.

    The depth in the front row too. Would Kelleher and Bealham be starting on any other team? I can't think of anybody better than them.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I don't think Kelleher is even in the same league as Sheehan these days.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Danny Drier


    Frawley to start at 15 v wales if Keenan injured?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, I don't think he is, but it's as much about how much better Sheehan keeps getting than anything else.

    If there was a Lions tour in the morning, I'd still expect Kelleher to be one of those selected.

    The point on our depth is really valid - Stuart McCloskey is arguably our fourth choice centre and I think he'd start for every other 6N country apart from France. Henderson is fourth choice lock and is better than what most of our competitors have, same with guys like Jack Conan & Finlay Bealham.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭50HX


    Any of ye watch the games on mute or barely audible?

    Some of the commentary is awful & virgin media is desperate stuff to listen esp the 3 in the studio that lack any personality at all....Rob k one of our best ever 15's but Jesus he should be no where near a camera.

    I watched the game back this mornin with the sound on & I was led to a different consensus on players as a result



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    I think I understand your point re Dan Sheehan. I think Hugo Keenan is the same.

    Each of them are possibly the best in the world at their craft but because they are so consistent, they don't seem to stand out and remain somewhat under the rainbow. They've both been at 100% since they made their respective debuts.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Actually I thought RK would be terrible but he knows his stuff. Given that, I don't care about his delivery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The quality this year is awful. Really poor. I suppose it's due to a rebirth after the WC. When sides throw out the old and bring in new players, it will take time to gel. I don't think Gatland had a choice and had to restart Wales. That's a work in progress and it will be some time before they settle into a good squad. France are poor! Very disappointing to see. England are also rebounding from EJ. Borthwick has a job on his hands. He may not be the man they need.

    We should expect a slam. The opposition are so poor and are basically in a rebuild mode.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The only one realistically in anything approaching rebuild mode is Wales, and even they have no real alternatives.

    Scotland, England, Wales and France have been selecting full strength sides so far, bar injuries.

    We've probably done the most rotation of any team so far in our selection v Italy last weekend.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wales are in full rebuild but their real problems are in Welsh regional and club rugby. There won't be much point to Gatland's rebuild if they're relying on English clubs to develop most of their players in five years time.

    England are undergoing a bit more of a rebuild than some people think. Their initial squad called up seven uncapped players and nine with less than ten caps. Some of those inexperienced players went straight into the starting team. Their first and second choice captains aren't playing anymore. They're also rebuilding their defensive system and tweaking their kicking game again. It's almost four weeks until we play them so I'd expect them to give us a more difficult game if they cut out their defensive errors. They'll still be poor in attack.

    Scotland are their usual basket case. Just when they could be close to their strongest for years they can't perform. Maybe they'll turn it on for a game in two weeks just because England are in Murrayfield.

    ...and who know with the French. 🤷‍♂️ The club game is back in charge there and half the players are probably flogged after rolling two seasons together.

    We're comfortably the best team in the 6N and we should take advantage to win a GS.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I'd expect so, that's better IMO than the rejig after Keenan went off of Harry Byrne at 10 with Jack Crowley at 15.

    There isn't really another strong contender for fullback at the moment.

    Connacht: O'Halloran (just back from injury), Hansen (injured)

    Leinster: Jimmy O'Brien (injured), Frawley, Larmour, Osborne (injured)

    Munster: Haley (injured), Zebo (injured), Nash, Shane Daly

    Ulster: Addison (just back from injury), Lowry (just back from injury), Stockdale

    Of all those I'd actually prefer Shane Daly, but for some reason he's not in the squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hard to look past Frawley as the back up. He's played there for Leinster a good bit lately, and fits the mild of a player who can step in as a playmaker. I think Larmour would prob be fine, but I'd worry about him competing with Steward under a high ball. Also don't think his kicking game is up to standard compared to his peers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I really don't like Frawley at full back tbh - just think he hasn't the pace to cover the backfield well enough at the highest level. I think he's the capacity to be a top tier 12, but don't see it at full back.

    He can do a job there without a doubt, but just don't see it as a strong position for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Crowley is the best 15 currently in the squad but he's also the best 10 and a 10 that needs minutes so you couldn't move him probably.

    I think it has to be Frawley? I think Stockdale would be good but he hasn't played much there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Frawley can certainly do a job at 15 but lacks the deceptive speed that Keenan has. That said, it's Keenan's ability to read the game that gets him into position and Frawley can read a game better than any other alternative.

    It was noticeable how slow Lowe was yesterday. It's not in his game and his strength in contact and his boot more than make up for it. Nash is not lightning quick either. So a back 3 of Frawley, Nash & Lowe may look ponderous against Steward, Freeman & (even at 31) Daly.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd like to see Larmour get a start on the wing. Nothing against Nash, who's been solid.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't be overly concerned about that particular English back three on pure speed grounds, but do agree Ireland lack pace in the back three.



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,586 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    of the 6 you mention here

     Frawley, Nash & Lowe may look ponderous against Steward, Freeman & (even at 31) Daly

    only freeman has any real speed. Daly and Lowe would be comparable imo and Steward is an oil tanker of a full back. (watch his chase back to the allen try from the first game, this is only after 25 mins. im sure ive seen porter run faster)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It will be disappointing if we don't get a slam this year but I'm quite worried about England. They have good players, they've been rebuilding and they seem to have a great spirit in the team. They're due a good home performance in this competition as I expect them to keep improving, and as someone else pointed out, Ford is the best fly half for the game they are trying to play and he is playing very well. They'll also be targeting the Ireland game as the one that can really get them over the top in terms of confidence. IT would be a massive victory for them. We should have plenty to deal with them and they will come into the game fearing a mauling but they are a frustrating team to play and their defence is potentially savage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,624 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I really, really don't understand the praise England have gotten (and the fears on here). They have been utterly abject in both games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    They won both games, have a good defence, have a strong lineout and a good scrum

    They are also at home and yes recently we have decent wins in Twickers but the same as many a cocky side came to Dublin looking to hammer Ireland only to slip up we could see history repeat itself



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    They made us work for it last year. It wasn't until the red card that we really started to get comfortable. I could see it becoming a stodgy game where their defence and set piece are solid enough and we struggle to break them down. It'll be a good test of our attack in terms of generating the quick ball that we like to play with.


    If Frawley is the replacement for Keenan, I wonder would we see Nash take on some of his roles and running lines in attack, while Frawley does the job in defence. Frawley would arguably be more like the Mack Hansen 2nd distributer role.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I'd prefer Stockdale or Larmour to Frawley at 15 tbh. Both have far more international experience in the position than Frawley (or Crowley)

    I reckon we might go 6-2 as well, in which case we might be better served keeping Frawley in the 23 jersey.

    I reckon it'll be Larmour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    They made us work for it last year. It wasn't until the red card that we really started to get comfortable. I could see it becoming a stodgy game where their defence and set piece are solid enough and we struggle to break them down. It'll be a good test of our attack in terms of generating the quick ball that we like to play with.


    We were poor against Italy last year too but the England game was a potential banana skin that could have been far more ugly if a few things went badly for us and better for them. They had nothing to lose and a lot to prove, as they do this year. Ireland are a better team in every aspect but away in Twickenham with so much on the table for both teams I still fell like this is the riskiest game of the championship for us.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I don't really see any reason to make that change, and when you add in Keenan's injury meaning the possibility of an enforced change in the back-3 already, doubly so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    A good defence? Italy walked through them at times. It might be a good defence in future but it is far too easy to get through at the moment.

    I see the game as a risk mainly as England seem to always drag us off our best game.

    But last year they had pride to play for but absolutely nothing to lose. This year they have a championship to lose so they cant be as free.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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