Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Can you imagine someone in the Kremlin using that excuse, sure look if we wanted to we could kill a lot more Ukranians. You would rightly dismiss it as grostesque and preposterous. Yet here you are dismissing the deaths of Palestinians civilians as **** happens and just be grateful as Israel could kill a lot more if they really wanted to. Their closest ally has even said they are not doing enough to minimise harm to civilians.

Pat Kenny had an international analyst on this morning talking about how Israel is in thrall to hardcore religious fanatics in government : more akin to a theocracy or dictatorship than anything resembling a western democracy. Says though that the penny is finally starting to drop with the US and UK and others that they are dealing with a bunch of lunatics.

Gaza hasn't been able to nor will it be able to under the current Israeli restrictions. Israel also needs to change it's behaviour towards Gaza and Palestine if there is to be a functioning economy.

Yes, somebody above said something similar. I concur that it is going to take change and trust on both sides but i do think that, certainly for the short term, the govn of gaza will have to agree not to bear arms. There is precedent in terms of restrictions that were imposed on Germany and Japan and it didn’t seem to do them any harm.

If this were another country that had attacked Israel they might just take it over and that would be that. See previous wars. I don’t think that should be the case here but Hamas should definitely go sooner rather than later.

Lies shouted from on high vs the truth being hidden in the doublespeak

https://x.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1757000772703723521?s=20

The Russians are using all available conventional military means to go at Ukraine. The only things left in their locker are WMD's.

Israel could use WMD's and use much more of its conventional military if it chooses to.

But you do realise that Russia and Iran and Hamas are friends here?

Jewish people harassed

Jewish people have gone into hiding

Jewish people receiving death threats

Jewish businesses targetted

Jewish children as young as 5 receiving threats

I am sure you agree its beyond the pale.

That would be my position on the matter.

I will say firstly I am no fan of Bibi and some of its government ministers.

I think the Settlements in the West Bank are grossly wrong and just inflame a situation.

However, I blame Hamas and Iran for this war first and foremost.

Palestinians and their leaders need to stop being used and seek out a new non-violent future.

Think Ghandi, think MLK, think the older and wiser Mandela.

If the Palestinians think they can use violence as a means to achieve a political aim, they are sorely wrong, as Israel is just too strong for them, and will do what they think is right in quelling said violence.

Anyone who genuinely wants peace in Gaza should be asking for Hamas to release the hostages and lay down its arms.

Where do we start?

We had an Irish politician proclaim that the attack was a 'beautiful thing'.

From polls, most Palestinians approved of the attacks, this is the biggest issue in of itself. They are brought up hate.

And we now know, there a deep antisemitism in the Arab world that we dismiss. THIS is the main issue of the conflict.

If Palestinians and their neighbours stop hating Jews so much there would be peace.

"Why can't Israel do targeted attacks to take out hamas?" They do targeted attacks and kill some Hamas members and are still in the wrong. "why can't they go in and free the hostages?" They go in and free some hostages and, shockingly, they are still in the wrong.

No matter what Israel do they will always be criticised by those who just hate them. The only country in the world expected not to defend themselves, and if they do go to war, the only country expected not to kill anyone

Nuanced you say. You wouldn't be using that word if it was Orban or anyone else expressing admiration for Putin. There is no clear lines in geo politics, the democratic Liberal west fosters relationships with autocratic regimes like Saudia Arabia. In any case this does not excuse those who claim to be western democratic liberals for trying to upend their consitiution to stay in power and excusing viloations of international law on the basis of what their enemies might do.

So I guess your great bit of 'whataboutery' justified 5-year-old Jewish kids being harrassed, because of a conflict they have no involvement in, but they are the same ethnicity as one of the actors?

I have concluded that some people will never condemn attacks and harassment against Jews, because in their eyes it is deserved.

Sorry - that info was not in the link posted. But I'll take your word for it. And yes, anyone who targets people via WhatsApp, regardless of their faith etc. should be held to account and brought to justice.

260 Palestinian children less than 12 months old murdered by the IDF.

I'm sure you'd agree that goes beyond the pale.

So if Ireland has economic links with a country, it will not protest against them?

HOW has the penny only dropped now?

It was obvious from 2 weeks into this conflict we were not dealing with rational actors in the IDF and Israeli Govt.