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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Alfies is probably the strongest and most well known, and he was almost certain he introduced them. A judge took his side against Bailey in a libel trial so thats good enough for me, but no doubt one of the usual crew will say otherwise!

    Guy Girard said Sophie mentioned the name Eoin Bailey, which was Bailey's pen-name and they had previous conversations.

    A cousin of Sophies said she told her in a phonecall about an independent journalist and writer living locally who contacted her and wanted to talk to her.

    A French woman Agnes Thomas said she had suppresed a memory but it came back to her about a weird local man with an interest in poetry trying to contact her.

    Bolger said he witnessed Bailey and Sophie talking and Bailey desperately trying to show her his poetry.

    Fuller said Bailey told him about dining twice with Sophie. I personally think Bailey was bluffing on this one, but theres a chance its true also. Bailey was an accomplished liar so you just don't know.

    But theres stuff we could add, about Bailey having a premonition on Hunts Hill for example. Clearly Bailey didnt have supernatural powers, so this was also incriminating.

    Also recent mention of Bailey knowing where she parked her car in Schull on the Saturday, something its unlikely anyone could have known unless they were following her.

    Post edited by tobefrank321 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭nc6000


    All very very circumstantial pieces of evidence, not sure how seriously anyone should treat a "suppressed memory" which comes up decades later to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    There's more credibility to some of them than others, no doubt about that. In terms of the French accounts there's vague references to a local writer/journalist/poet trying to make contact with her, which sounds like Bailey. But without telephone records difficult to back it up.

    I believe Alfies account, and I believe Bailey did tell Fuller all of that because when the first part of the conversation was put to Bailey in court he didn't deny the conversation took place, but said others were saying it about him, which is hard to believe.

    For the record Bailey did know where Sophie lived and is likely to have known some things about her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I haven't been able to dig it up again, but to corrcct the other post, I don't think Pecout had samples taken as he was not treated as suspect by the Gardaí. He was quite ill at the time with cancer. I believe the samples taken were hair, I don't know if it was cut hair or plucked hair or even if it makes a difference. Bailey's sample was plucked hair. There were 2 or 3 other names on the list that I didn't recognise at the time, I assumed they for elimination purposes, undertakers or lab assistants maybe. I don't know if she is correct in saying only Bailey's sample was tested though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    There doesn't seem to be anything substantial related to the alternative theories

    Alfie - bandaged hand ,drove to dump , didn't get on with sophie

    Husband- the divorce theory isn't substantiated afaik and he had a credible explanation for not travelling initially

    German guy ? - said he did something terrible ? did he know sophie ?

    AN other ?


    None of it amounts to much imo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Alfie the local "weedhead"? im not sure how much you could rely on his memory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I am reluctant to rule out "A N Other"

    Partly, I suppose, because our own family had a holiday-home cottage in a remote location: it was left empty through most winters...But absolutely disheartening how often often it was broken in to. We had to get a steel door, in the end.

    Nobody knows who or when or how. Might see tyre tracks, that's all.

    So I know that burglars DO roll up to remote cottages expecting them to be empty. And they may be carrying a nail-bar or a hammer, too.

    This cannot be ruled out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Bailey was also a weedhead and alcoholic, so are we supposed to believe whatever he says either?

    Sounded like one big hippy commune down there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Her car was outside. She was attacked and chased. Killed with rock and block, not a crowbar or hammer. While its possible it seems implausible. Some people argue it was a personalised frenzied attack, and it very much points that way. Overkill was a strong feature of it.

    Disturbed burglars don't tend to stick around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Ya'd imagine an intruder would just have the engine running and scarper when confronted by Sophie

    I can't see that level of violence at the gate in those circumstances man v woman



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Yet you trust Bailey's memory even though he was proven to have different recollections of the vitally important incidents that helped make him suspect number 1.

    Makes sense.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I wouldn't trust Bailey's memory any more than I'd trust any other drunk's memory. This presumably is why his alibi changed between interviews (can you recall in detail what you did (with times) a week ago?).

    On the flip side, how many times were the other suspects interviewed and how many times did they contradict themselves?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    The suspicion with the alibi is that they both changed their version of events that nite

    And then he happened to be gone from the bed all nite the nite (?) of the murder



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    This presumably is why his alibi changed between interviews (can you recall in detail what you did (with times) a week ago?).

    This argument is made completely invalid when you consider when Bailey was first questioned/interviewed.

    To the best of my understanding Bailey was first talked to in the days after the murder and he said he was in bed all night.

    This then all changed six or so weeks later.

    I can understand how one would struggle to recall what they did a certain night six weeks ago, but I'd expect them to remember better what they did a few nights ago.

    Bailey lied in the days after the murder about what he did the night of the murder, a few nights earlier.

    And he also lied about what he did the Saturday night.

    He first said he went home after the pub but subsequently changed that to say he went to Murphy's and slept on the couch and left in the early morning.

    He made this change shortly after his original statement, so still very close to the time, he didn't wait till the February arrest.

    And also he went to Murphy's to confirm with everyone there that he slept on the couch and left in the early morning before going to the Gardai with that information.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You keep telling us that he "lied" - you've no idea whether his memory of events is so hazy as a result of drink or what. You are just throwing out this "lies" as if you yourself know what was going through his head - as this suits your bias.


    As for him correcting his story - how many times was Alfie interviewed formally and how many times did he change his story in any way? Same question for any other potential suspect?

    If you don't see where I'm going with this then maybe ask yourself if the other suspects were given the same number of interviews where the opportunity to contradict their story could occur.

    I don't really care. If it's a private conversation with another poster that you're after then take it to PM!



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not sure what point you think you're trying to make.

    "And he also lied about what he did the Saturday night."

    Given that the murder didn't take place on the Saturday night, what reason would Bailey have to lie about it? What advantage is there to lying?

    Just speaks to the point of Bailey with drink taken being hazy about details. And confirming the information with the Murphys to be precise so that the Guards couldn't spin it against him if he had to correct some detail of the timing later.

    Were the Murphy's lying? Why would they lie?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    I just rather avoid you in particular because I remember you as a poster that is easily offended and very vocal about it.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    And let's not forget that in between his different statements he led the early investigations astray with his false stories about the "French connection" to the murder which most newspapers picked up on and the Gardai were forced to waste valuable time on.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Bailey sent the Gardaí on a wild goose chase to France, and because of this they wasted valuable time? That's probably what happened all right!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    As for him correcting his story - how many times was Alfie interviewed formally and how many times did he change his story in any way? Same question for any other potential suspect?

    We don't know this.

    And I think the reason we don't know is because it likely never happened.

    Alfie, Sherley, and others probably gave accurate and truthfull accounts to the Gardai and the Gardai were able to verify them and believe that they were true.

    That's what separated them from Bailey, that's what resulted in them not being suspects for long, if ever.

    Why for every aspect of Bailey being a suspect do people like yourself expect that there must be the same aspect to everyone else who might be a suspect.

    The real world doesn't work like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Bailey sent the Gardaí on a wild goose chase to France".

    You just made that up, I've no idea why.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    If you want to pursue that line then how do we believe Bailey when he said he just got out of bed to write an article ?

    Maybe in his drunken haze he can't remember that he went and murdered Sophie.

    Listen to the West Cork podcast.

    Bailey says on it, something like "I was right here at this table writing the article" meaning the kitchen table of The Prairie.

    And Jules says the same.

    But even that was not the full story, because he had to type the article and so he had to go to The Studio down the road to do that.

    The podcast presenter tells us this, not Bailey.

    So there he was, all the years on from the event, Bailey still being economical with the truth.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So you reckon that Alfie and other suspects weren't interviewed a second or subsequent time because their first interview seemed accurate and truthful.

    What was so inaccurate or untruthful about Bailey's first interview that made AGS think, to bring him in again?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    We have no idea how many times they were interviewed, just that they didn't become suspects.

    Yet people like you think that because we don't know more about them that something must be wrong, the Gardai must have made a mistake, were incompetent etc etc.

    Did it ever occur to you that they were ruled out for good reasons or are you to much of a contrarian for something as simple as that?

    I've no idea what prompted Gardai to bring Bailey in again, but when they did his story about spending the whole night in bed fell apart.



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭easy peasy


    Ha God forbid the Gardai would have to examine a possible “French connection” to the murder of a French lady in a country she spent little time in before she could return to her entire family in France the next day, including her husband who she was not exactly happily married to.

    The Gardai should have been examining all of this anyway, regardless of Bailey.

    Also, I don’t think the Gardai wasting time at this point mattered too much. They had already effectively torpedoed their own investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    "To the best of my understanding Bailey was first talked to in the days after the murder"

    Bailey was first interviewed on 10th February. 7 weeks after the event.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If memory serves me correctly, Bailey was brought in for his second interview after members of AGS had been telling locals about what he did.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I don't think that was the case, I believe it was much earlier. I'll listen back to the podcast.

    Det Dwyer visited him well before the Feb 10th interview.



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