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"average Dublin house prices should fall to ‘the €300,000 mark" according to Many Lou McD.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    40 years ago GPs weren't competing for houses against the huge number of people working in tech roles on 6 figures salaries. Then throw in the tech staff share based pay, which gives them another chunk to add into their purchasing power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    No it doesn't. But you know that already

    Prices price will reduce, they are peak. They won't reduce to the stupid level Mary Lou pulled out of her nowhere. That's what the person in article says without making a reference to Mary Lou of course.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    If they want older people to downsize and vacate their larger houses, how does reducing the value of their home make that enticing?

    Even taking into account the reduced cost of a smaller house, they would get less out of the deal...

    I've looked into this for people... To move into a smaller house in the area they've lived all their lives, with a garden and all of the comforts they want to enjoy in their progressing years... Cost of moving, new furniture,fittings and decorating... Paying solicitors, stamp duty etc. it doesn't leave you with as much as you'd hope... So why give up the home you've worked so hard for...

    There has to be a plan to make it more viable for people to downsize...



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,969 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It has always been the way, for centuries now, that people could not buy a house beside where they grew up, because people already live in those houses!! Every Dubliner once lived inside the city walls.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,969 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, they were. 30 years ago was 1993, and plenty of people were leaving Ireland then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Do you just completely not understand the role the ratio of income to house prices plays? Going from a ratio of just over 2, to almost 5, in three decades is catastrophic. Thats not normal historical housing trends, its a very clear sign of a dysfunctional housing market.

    And you're completely factually incorrect as usual. In 1993 35,100 people emmigrated from Ireland, and 34,700 immigrated to Ireland. The net migration figure was minus 400. Not four hundred thousand, 400 people. In 1992 it was a net migration figure of plus 7400. "Plenty of people" were actually moving to Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Cali Screeching Prince


    They need to bring in house price increase limits linked to inflation, the same they have for rents. That would cool down the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,710 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    So prices could never drop then? Have you thought this through?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    With the incentives Ireland offers to multinationals, particularly in pharma and IT, we are attracting lots of highly paid inward migration and also paying qualified Irish people high wages.

    As long as this is happening, house prices stay high. Building more houses will attract more people to come.

    All the building policies, help to buy schemes (which is widely accepted are counter productive to prices dropping), asking older people to vacate their properties for smaller ones etc are just pissing against the wind really.

    It's going to take a massive negative economic shock to drop house prices, the last shock actually increased prices significantly.

    Ireland grew too quickly and housing never kept up and we are a huge number of years from catching up. There's no masterplan at all. So it's not going to happen. Just soundbites from Mary Lou and other career politicians.

    The latest I read was a campaign to get Irish tradespeople home. I'd be interested in seeing what the angle is here, what is on offer. How many? We must need thousands. But they too will need somewhere to live. And they will need to be offered big wages. And those 2 things alone will drive prices up further.

    We are in a hole of our own making. I own a house so I'm happy, it's worth twice what I paid for it in 2011. It's a fine house, it suits me and my circumstances .I have big equity. I have thought about moving a few times but to move within Dublin is more expensive than it has ever been for me, even with the equity I have built up, or has been built up for me I suppose, I didn't do much to earn it.

    But just as I have done little to earn it, the same forces have made Dubliners unable to buy a house, or even rent one in reasonable shape at reasonable cost. These forces are still very much at play, and accelerating.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Where did all those houses disappear to? If I look out the window there still seems to be plenty of houses in Ballybrack?

    "people who have the wealth to live elsewhere"? People who have wealth live wherever they want...thats kinda the point.

    Where do the thousands of new houses in Ballybrack go exactly? Maybe pave over Kilbogget park?

    Its almost as if there is more demand now than there was back then yet the size of the country hasnt grown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    70/80

    Generally, positive net migration can be observed in the 1970s with a peak of 20,000 people coming to Ireland in 1975. Over the 1970s cumulative positive net migration was just under 100,000 people indicating 100,000 more people arriving than leaving. A declining trend can be observed from the peak onwards to 1989. The 1980s were dominated with negative net migration, with more than 185,000 more people leaving than arriving in the 1980s.

    1990's

    An upturn in the net migration trend begins in 1990, however negative net migration can still be observed in all years (aside from 1992) until 1996. The remaining years of the 1990s show positive net migration. In the earlier half of the 1990s (1990 – 1994), there was negative net migration of 22,600 which indicates that approximately 23,000 more people departed the State than arrived. Positive net migration starts in 1996 and in the latter half of the decade (1995 – 1999), Ireland had positive net migration of 60,000 more people arriving than leaving.

    The upturn happened with the Celtic Tiger.

    I also provided the unemployment rates I could find back as far as I could find......




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Cali Screeching Prince


    The price could go up no more than the inflation rate. The price could fall however as much, I guess whatever it would sell for. To determine the initial sale price, an evaluation could be done. And to determine who gets the house, could be done on pratiacal needs i.e. a local working family.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    You cant price cap a house.

    It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just like eveything else.

    The only way to succesfully bring the prices down, without crashing the economy, is to build a lot more of them.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭dubliniift


    She truly means 270k. Htb is plus 30k to anything it costs or is deemed to be minimum selling price. Builders will claim HTB as profits



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Because think about it...could Ireland let alone the world support everybody as a council worker with 10 kids each with free gaffs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,577 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Actually, when I bought a commercial property in 07/08, the bank offered me 110% of the purchase price to cover stamp duty and legal costs. I didn’t ask for it, nor did I avail of it, but they did offer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That's commercial properties. Different to a mortgage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Maybe it did, 100% was crazy at the time as well. By the time 100% mortgage came on the scene the house price was already high because of the jobs in Ireland. As I showed above the number of people leaving ireland, returning to Ireland and unemployment dropped all came around at the start of the Celtic Tiger and that was the increase. 100% only came around 2005/2006 and the crash was 2008.

    See below, the major house price increases happened long before 100% mortgages


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,577 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    It was a mortgage on a commercial property, I suppose the pertinent points are, the bank did offer a 110% loan, and I didn’t request it. I can’t have been the only one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,969 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I do recall someone mentioning to me around that time that they got a mortgage bigger than 100% to cover furniture, fittings etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I guess around 2005/2006 based on the 100% announced in 2005. As above the house price was already raised at that stage so they might of had a small push up but on a market that was already high



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Crazy sh*t if they took it out. Then people blame the government and everyone else for the crash, f**king ridiculous and people need to take some responsibility



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭hometruths


    It is worth what somebody is willing and able to pay for it. Just like everything else.

    If you increase what somebody is able to pay, whether by increased wages, loose credit or indeed government supports like HTB and shared equity then the price will rise.

    Thus obviously if you remove those government supports then the price will fall.

    So it is possible to successfully bring prices down without crash the economy.

    It's unlikely to happen. But the reasons for that are political, not economic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,841 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Technically, I understand that the banks were offering mortgages up to 95% of the value of the property, and then also offering unsecured personal loans for another 5-15% for furnishings/fittings etc.

    That gave the total borrowings of up to 110% - but deniability that the mortgage technically was only for 95% - when the reality was that the full loan value was indeed 110%



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    A lot of people in the Dublin area can afford to pay a lot more than 300k for a house.

    Govt supports or no Govt supports.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭DataDude


    I can see arguments for and against HTB and whilst it is of course inflationary in nature, I think its impact is likely to be somewhat overblown by many. Like as if it was removed the market would crash.

    Stats suggest it’s only used in roughly 10% of purchases. It’s also been made largely redundant in the more expensive areas except for 1 and 2 bed apartments due to the €500k price cap.

    So in pretty much all of Dublin & Wicklow (probably Kildare/Meath too) every new build 3bed terraced house and above is still being snapped up in no time at all without any incentives at all. There is no shortage of ‘real’ demand and people able to pay current prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Thus obviously if you remove those government supports then the price will fall.

    This assumes that the only thing keeping prices at their current level is government support. That absolutely isn't the case.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I wasn't aware it was as low as 10%, is that 10% of FTB transactions or 10% of new build sales?

    I take your point re the redundancy of the supports in more expensive areas. But a presumably related fact is that yet another characteristic of our market that makes Ireland an outlier is the relative affordability of the cheapest areas of Dublin vs the most expensive.

    I suspect this is largely driven by the government supports at the lower levels of the market both in sales and rents.



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  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,990 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Personally I'd like to see the bulk of the supports in the rental market withdrawn as well. They're certainly doing their bit to push prices high.

    Between all the differnet subisdies and supports the government is pumping billions into the property market every year, and that figure rises annually as prices continue to rise.

    Of course you can argue it is essential for society, but it's naive to think the effect of all this government money is not pushing prices higher.



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